Ever think that my spider may be more adapted to this world then your normal?

[rabernet]

I agree with that...

That doesn't mean that there aren't more out there.

It doesn't mean that the shaking of the head when excited or scared is NOT an advantage in the wild.

It doesn't mean that the corkscrewing can't be used to attract prey.

It doesn't really mean anything in regards to the topic at hand.

Oh - so that's what you're so riled up about and splitting hairs about? Whether there was one or more and your theory?

I wasn't even thinking about it from that point of view. My point was more towards the argument of in-breeding that was also brought up.

So it absolutely DOES mean something to how the topic has evolved throughout its life.

In any case - have at it. Lunch is now over.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Not really. There is only the one record of the one spider being found.

You just don't get it man... answer these questions and maybe you wil:

1.) when people start recording ball python morphs?
2.) how long have people and ball pythons co-existed?

[RobNJ]

Not really. There is only the one record of the one spider being found.

There is one on record...who was keeping records before anyone cared about ball pythons? As recently as the 80's?? That is why holding to that claim is crazy. Sure, there's only one on record, but to say the only one on record IS in fact the only one ever found in centuries of a species existence in an area of the world where a lot of "record keeping" of such things is probably shoddy at best is akin to saying Bigfoot IN FACT lives because he was seen on tape.

[Dragoon]

If the spider was superior it would be the normal.

[Driver]

Exactly. Lets not forget, people do eat ball pythons.... I wonder how many spiders ended up on a dinner plate. If they were out at night corkscrewing trying to attract birds, they would also probably be easier for preditors to find... like humans.

Is this really where you are taking this argument?

My original post that started this was about the only spider that has been found and that spider is the source of all the spiders that we have today. So we don't know how well they can survive since we only have the one source.

[MrLang]

This is true. However there are two sides to this arguement. Sickle cell does reduce the fitness of an individual and they are likely not to live beyond 30-40-50 years tops. But in an area where they may have died of malaria before they were able to have children this would have given them the advantage of growing old enough to reproduce therefore continueing the human race. This is why sickle cell is so prevalent within certain populations.

This is a pretty cool scenario in the human population. I come from a school of thought where people considered humans to have stopped being selected for a long time ago, so forgive me if I came off as not being on board with what you're saying. I don't disagree with you, but I don't have enough specific knowledge on it to really say much else about it. I think you agree with me on the larger point I was trying to draw attention to, which is about dumb luck. What makes the spider gene different from other evolutionary adaptations is that it hasn't 'proven' itself as superior and most likely never will. Based on what we know about why BPs act and are colored the way they are, it seems unlikely to be able to safely speculate that they WOULD have an advantage that would be considered evolutionary in their native habitat .

@Mike - Sorry, I mentioned in my first post that I only care enough to point out that your theory is less than rational and unsupported, to be polite. You're the one carrying the burden of proof and took it on with your opening post.

The last thing I'll throw out there to consider is whether or not we'd even be having this discussion if the color pattern on the spider morph looked like a normal bp color. Would you breed wobbly normals and market them as such? Do you think people would buy them? Come on...

Going to respectfully dip out at this time, as this is going nowhere fast. Domepiece- cool stuff. I'm going to check out more about sickle cell. I'm curious to know how high the percent of sickle carriers can get in the most highly selected community.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

That is too bad MR Lang... We were all really excited about the education you were about to offer us....

[Mike Cavanaugh]

2.) how long have people and ball pythons co-existed?

To help put things into perspective, and help you answer #2... Most believe that the term "Royal Python" came from when Queen Cleopatra used to wear them as jewelry around her wrist.

Queen Clopatra was born in 69BC.

LOL, too bad they didn't have cameras back then. If she had good taste, her spider ball python was probably her favorite.

[Gomojoe]

I think we have to say that the spider mutation did "prove" effective as it was attractive enough for us to take one and breed it out to who knows how many. I think people often think of evolution with humans as observers and not as an active part of the planets ecosystem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Driver]

There is one on record...who was keeping records before anyone cared about ball pythons? As recently as the 80's?? That is why holding to that claim is crazy. Sure, there's only one on record, but to say the only one on record IS in fact the only one ever found in centuries of a species existence in an area of the world where a lot of "record keeping" of such things is probably shoddy at best is akin to saying Bigfoot IN FACT lives because he was seen on tape.

So just to be clear on this? Your argument is based on "What If's" and mine is based on actual records. If our history books were written the way you seem to want them to be then man our kids would be full of miss guided knowledge. You do realize that there are species of animals that have yet to be discovered right?
Just a few weeks back a whole new snake species was discovered. That was the first time that it was ever found.

Based on your theory there are no new morphs because they have all been found because it is impossible for us to not have found them yet. Well i guess there goes a lot of people hopes and dreams of one day discovering that new morph.