how do you to stun a rat?

[Beardedragon]

[QUOTE=wolfy-hound;1736686]Most compressed air now contains "bitterants" and I wouldn't think that would be very pleasant to die from.

I don't know what type of compressed air you're using, nor do I remember the discussion about it being inhumane, so I'd like to see the thread too,




its been a while, Wolfy!

Now the bitterants are mostly in the liquid that can shoot out of the can if tilted incorrectly, but honestly most of that can be solved by putting some sort of filter like a clothe over the end of the straw.

Like I said Ive been using the same stuff for YEARS and ive never had a snake get sick or randomly die from anything out of the ordinary, let alone dustoff.

BUT, that is the beauty of reptile keeping, everyone has THEIR OWN personal beliefs and ways of doing things. We can agree to disagree on certain things and I am aware of that Im not making anybody use dust off, and after reading that article if you decide to not use compressed air, then more power to yourself.

Now give me some hard proof and that my friend will alter what I think and do.

[Redneck_Crow]

MSDS data for "Dust Off" spray:

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~sa...FF%20SPRAY.htm

There are a whole heap of volatiles in this stuff--it's waaaaay more than compressed air. I'm thinking that those volatiles are poisoning the rats because they cause heart irregularities and death in lab animals, and there's a good chance that those lab animals were rats.

We each assess and weigh possible consequences differently. But let me tell you, IMHO you would be safer letting the snake kill the rats than feeding the crap in dust off into his system. That crap is trapped in the rat's lungs, it's gotten into their bloodstream, and it's in their fur--face it, none of us wash the prey before we feed our snakes. (unless we have some big issues)

There are better ways to kill a rat.

[Beardedragon]

Well, of course there are better ways to kill the rat, i wont disagree with you on that.

And as far as causing death in lab animals..well...duh. lol

[snakesonaplane]

When mine had her two feeding "live-only" pickiness, I stunned the mouse by placing it in a ziplock bag and slamming the bag hard against a door 1-2 times. From what I've seen from personal experience, this just incapacitates them and they don't seem to come back with a vengeance. Then again, I did slam it pretty hard. By the time I dumped the mouse out into her feeding box, it was just twitching and peeing itself. Before anyone says it's inhumane, it's a lot more humane than letting it be constricted by a snake. After the first head impact, the mouse's central nervous system completely shuts down with the exception of the last firing of neurons that control muscle movements. It's basically 100% pain-free after the impact, compared to the slow suffocation the mouse undergoes under constriction.

So I think a hard impact against a hard surface is the surest way to cause the mouse the least pre-death harm. Just don't back down and slam it lightly, since you're just hurting and panicking the feeder...that's just torture. One swift hit, painless death.

That's my scientifically derived opinion and I'm sure some people on here won't like it, but this is concerning stunning the mouse, not pre-killing it. Pre-killing with carbon dioxide is the way to go (as far as humane methods are concerned).

[achilles_crutch]

try feeding from tongs. i had a handful of missed strikes where the snake would slam its face against the side of the enclosure and i could clearly see that it made the snake uncomfortable to the point where it said "forget it, i'll eat next week". also on occasion the snakes have made bad grabs and left themselves open to be bitten until the rat died in its coils.

for a while i would just rap the rat up against the inside of enclosure to goof it up till the snake could finish it off but i always felt like crap about it. i knew it wasnt the right way to go about it.

i bought a pair of rubber-tipped 12" long tweezers that i use to pick the rat up by the scruff of the neck and hold them until secured by the snake. i havent had any bad grabs since starting this method.

[snakesRkewl]

When mine had her two feeding "live-only" pickiness, I stunned the mouse by placing it in a ziplock bag and slamming the bag hard against a door 1-2 times. From what I've seen from personal experience, this just incapacitates them and they don't seem to come back with a vengeance. Then again, I did slam it pretty hard. By the time I dumped the mouse out into her feeding box, it was just twitching and peeing itself.

Yeah, that sounds humane....doh.
Snakes have been strangling rats for how many years?
Are you saying the natural way a snake eats is inhumane?

Slamming a rat against anything is inhumane, you can't be sure that death happens humanely, all you can do is you HOPE you slam it properly.

[CCfive]

I use dry ice put in a container with holes, then place that container in a cooler with the rats. The first container keeps the rats from coming in contact with the dry ice. I pour some water on the ice, close the cooler, and in about 2 min they're all in a peaceful forever sleep.

[snakesonaplane]

Yeah, that sounds humane....doh.
Snakes have been strangling rats for how many years?
Are you saying the natural way a snake eats is inhumane?

Slamming a rat against anything is inhumane, you can't be sure that death happens humanely, all you can do is you HOPE you slam it properly.

When I think about if I'd rather get hit in the head with a hammer and die from the impact or whether I'd rather be coiled around by a snake and have to spend the last few minutes of my life gasping and struggling for breath...hammer wins every time

Point is, no matter which way you look at it...death is death. Quick and painless wins over lengthy and painful.

[wolfy-hound]

The prey is not suffocated or strangled by the snake generally. The snake actually compresses the chest of the prey, causing the heart to stop. It's not that they have to get the prey to not breathe for several long minutes, it's generally that the organ compression causes death. I don't have the link to the study, lost that when the laptop crashed.

At any rate, if you cause death either pain-free or extremely quickly, it's humane. So CO2 gas is pain-free, and crushing a skull is quick. People fuss over things like crushing the rat's skull because it's brutal looking, but if it kills the rat, it's still humane. It's the same as a "humane bolt" to the head, after all.

If you're not doing it RIGHT, you can just injure the rodent, or cause slow suffacation or break bones but not kill it... no matter WHAT method you use. And the snake can make a lousy grab and have to take a while to kill the rat too. It's not always going to go RIGHT... no matter what.

So if you do kill your rodents, just make sure you're doing it right.

As far as the bitterants, spray some in your face, esp your mouth. I used to use a compressed air to "fan" my face and get dog hair out of my face at work. Several years ago, the makers put in bitterants and it's REALLY nasty. I certainly don't spray that in my face anymore. It doesn't take turning it upside down to get plenty of that icky stuff coming out too. I don't know how you're using it though, so perhaps the bitterants aren't getting on/to the rats, just the air is. If you think it's humane, that's your decision. I'm not there to see the rats, and it's not my rats.

I think there is a compressed air that doesn't have bitterants, used for the cake decorating and such.