Sick Herp Help

[Daybreaker]

$1,200 a bottle though

A bottle? I paid ~$40 for 30 days worth of Baytril! (plus some ~$10 for all the syringes)

[TheFellCrow]

Where's Skiploder? He's IMO the expert on RIs on this board!

I would say your friend's husbrandry is at fault if her snakes are all falling ill to RIs. Were the sick snakes showing any other signs of ill health other that the RI symptoms (regurging, stargazing, etc?)

As for orally treating RIs, I believe injectable antibiotics do so much better than oral applications. I would recommend discussing doing injectables with the vet. Also is the 98/99 degrees hot spot temps? If so, I would lower it a tad since that seems a bit too high (IMO). I bumped my one girl's hot spot temps to ~95 when she came to me with an RI and after 30 days of injectable Baytril shots she got cured of it.

As for protecting your snakes: wash and sanitize your hands before coming home and right when you get home. I wouldn't worry about your snakes catching anything though as long as you're strict with santizing yourself after being around the sickly petstore snakes.

sorry.. i missed your question... the snakes were acting fine. the ball in my care was acting like a perfectly healthy little snake. in fact when I realized she was sick it wasnt because she was acting like she was sick. i was already on hyper alert because the vet said she thought the tortoise was viral. so when i picked her up i was looking very closely at her mouth... i saw a faint sign of mucus and didnt take a chance... my problem is that its progressing so rapidly we cant seem to hinder it at all

[TheFellCrow]

ok... now that my initial horror has worn off. Where do viral infections come from? could it breed from unsanitary conditions in store? or does it come from other reptiles... if so then it could completely be possible that it came from our breeder. out of the reptiles that fell sick in store, the tortoise was the first (judging by his rate of regression) so maybe the breeder of the tort. i will have to find out who comes from what breeder if that is the case.

[WingedWolfPsion]

No, viral infections ONLY come from contact with infected animals--they can be transmitted by parasites such as mites, as well, sometimes--mites that have been on infected animals.

This sounds like a lethal respiratory virus, perhaps something like paramyxovirus. They can kill very rapidly. You NEED to get a necropsy done on one of the deceased animals to confirm the cause of death. If this is one of the lethal viruses, then it is HIGHLY contagious, and all animals that have come into contact with a sick one have been exposed. Other reptiles in the store are also at risk.

NONE of these animals should be sold to or handled by the public. These diseases are killers--a customer could handle one of the animals that isn't even showing signs yet, and then bring the virus home and infect their own pets.

Warn all of the breeders that have sent you animals. Some of these viruses have an incubation period of up to 11 months, in some cases. If it is one of these viruses, then all of the reptiles in your store should be quarantined for a year. That's harsh, and your store owner will NOT like it. If that's what comes back, they may need to euthanize the affected animals (unless they have someone willing to care for them in strict quarantine for a year), and disinfect everything, discarding anything that cannot be thoroughly disinfected. (Use something strong that's made for killing diseases like Newcastle's).

Some of the bad viruses are survivable--with long term supportive care and antibiotics to control secondary infections, a quarter of them MIGHT make it through alive. That depends on which virus it is, though. Some of the viruses can remain in the animals after they recover (they become carriers), while others won't.

I don't know of any of the viral RIs in reptiles that are not highly lethal. (Does anyone else?)

Half measures are not acceptable--if this is a virus, then everything the infected animals came into contact with is a potential source of contagion for other reptiles, and could remain so for a very long time. It is vitally important to get a diagnoses.

[TheFellCrow]

heres todays status.

our last russian tortoise died without showing any signs of sickness. he passed overnight

the baby ball python is still alive and looks like hes perking up a bit.. i hope he will pull through

one of our corn snakes is now showing signs of sickness. mucus discharge from mouth

our striped california kingsnake is now showing signs of sickness. mucus discharge from mouth

our water dragon is now showing signs of sickness. mucus discharge from mouth


we only have a baby ball python, baby corn snake, 3 anoles, sand boa, 3 baby leopard geckos, an apricot milksnake, and 2 baby beardies still healthy.

i told the manager in charge of all of the reptiles that we needed a necropsis. he has to take it up with the district manager. thats the problem with big pet stores... too many procedures if you ask me.

we have everything we need plus an indoor vet which is convenient and useful

[zeion97]

heres todays status.

our last russian tortoise died without showing any signs of sickness. he passed overnight

the baby ball python is still alive and looks like hes perking up a bit.. i hope he will pull through

one of our corn snakes is now showing signs of sickness. mucus discharge from mouth

our striped california kingsnake is now showing signs of sickness. mucus discharge from mouth

our water dragon is now showing signs of sickness. mucus discharge from mouth


we only have a baby ball python, baby corn snake, 3 anoles, sand boa, 3 baby leopard geckos, an apricot milksnake, and 2 baby beardies still healthy.

i told the manager in charge of all of the reptiles that we needed a necropsis. he has to take it up with the district manager. thats the problem with big pet stores... too many procedures if you ask me.

we have everything we need plus an indoor vet which is convenient and useful

You need to quarantine them all SEPARATELY. Like I said before easier said then done.... You have to have a sick Herp that is getting all the others sick.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Most likely, all of the sick herps are getting the others sick.
The ones that look healthy could be incubating the illness, which means if any of them are sold, the customer will bring home an animal that may get sick and die, and infect any other reptiles they have.
The ONLY responsible (and remotely ethical) thing to do is to pull them all into the back room, and do not get more in until the issue is solved.

This sounds like one of the scariest illnesses I've heard of so far--affecting turtles, lizards and snakes. Paramyxo is generally only found in snakes, so it's less likely to be that...but that doesn't leave any obvious known viruses. This could be something new, or little known, if it is viral. With the sudden onset and so many deaths, it sure sounds likely.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Found this, which may be helpful to read:
www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/3/11/2087/pdf

It sounds like a ranavirus is one possibility.

[TheFellCrow]

unfortuneatly petsmart has a system that we cannot control. a new shipment of reptiles is on its way.. should show up tomorrow. we will quarantine them from the everything else in the new arrival room. however, if what you said is true and it comes from an infected reptile then it had to start somewhere. the most probable(sp?) place it came from is our own breeder. we do not allow contact with customers' reptiles. the first to fall sick was the small russian tortoise. who had just shown up.. i believe the day before. I will have to check our shipments. but every one of our reptiles comes from the same place. The kingsnake and corn snake have been in store for months. the kingsnake for at least 5 months

[WingedWolfPsion]

I do hope that you can convince the manager not to sell anything. These viruses (if that's what it is) can wipe out entire collections, and pose a serious threat to native reptiles. Discarding infected bedding outdoors could wind up transmitting the illness to wildlife. It's vitally important to contain the problem when it's recognized.
(I don't know what's up with the smiley face on this post, and I can't figure out how to remove it, so don't think I'm happy about this).