Ballbids.com

[Bruce Whitehead]

How do we know that this was indeed resolved?

A bunch of people said "oh no it didn't!"... Then said "oh yes it did".

Just curious how this was proven and resolved.

Bruce

[RichsBallPythons]

How do we know that this was indeed resolved?

A bunch of people said "oh no it didn't!"... Then said "oh yes it did".

Just curious how this was proven and resolved.

Bruce

Was proven via Robyn from SYR. I Talked to him about it and he informed me he watched all 3 packages. They all arrived on time and where they were supposed to go.

[Dawn Michelle]

We are still looking into the law portion. All has went silent when that point was brought up. We will see.

[Skiploder]

So after a bit of research and close scrutiny and a bit of digging we discover that the "winner" nrvgonestop has posted not only a fake shipping box and label, that was NEVER in the fed ex system nor even registers a logical shipping weight, ( 1lb for a snake+heat packs+packing+box....really?) but no package was ever shipped to the address. You see fed ex has all that info in their system and with a few questions and descriptions from the label, it was confirmed that that box NEVER shipped anywhere and that a printed label was slapped on it to try and dupe this very aware hobby community.

This is just more proof that Zack is nrvgonestop, which means he tried to scam everyone out of their money by winning his own auctions, and repeatedly lying about it Also, I believe, when he realized that he wasn't feeding caca to a bunch of dummies and people were starting to put 2 and 2 together he started giving refunds and covering his ass as fast as he could to avoid criminal charges, WHY he is still trying to prove his legitimacy by using fake accounts and "shipping" empty boxes to himself is beyond me. I will be compiling ALL of the data, proof, emails, screen shots I have collected and be making a blog spot that anyone can reference people to if Zack ever even tries to say humidity in this hobby. Shaun, I and many others decided to make it a point NOT to let this fool ever try this in this community again.

Stay tuned.

I do have pics of the labels but I dont seem to have permission to upload them to my pics on here, I will get links.....

So this is all retracted?

What was the "research" and close "scrutiny" that was applied here? I'm seeing a lot of pitchforks and bull spit. The focus of this thread should be the outing of someone trying to make a quick buck on the hobby. This thread started circling the drain when people began making baseless accusations and cluttering the joint up with self-important chest beating.

FWIW, in many counties, it is considered cruelty to offer a live animal as a prize for a promotion, raffle, etc.

Guess which county and state this is from (hint - not Kentucky):

Live animal prizes prohibited. Whoever gives away or offers to give away any live animal as a prize in any game, drawing, sweepstakes or other promotion, shall be in violation of this section.

Now let be very clear on this, lest some hot-headed jack-ass tries to take my comments out of context.

Husbandry Concerns:

First, as Joe and others have pointed out, the leaders of Ballbids have a very questionable past (or lack of) in this hobby. The lack of QT, their desire to set up this venture as a means to cash in on the hobby, etc. are all real issues.

However, I could easily say that many people who were jumping on Ballbids with gusto have absolutely no idea what constitutes proper quarantine.

I could also point out several well-respected and roundly worshipped big box breeders who buy whole clutches and then sell them immediately.

The point? Figure it out. I'm in no way supporting Ballbids so before some knucklehead tries to go there - be careful, but you have all heard about those in glass houses and stones, right?

Cruelty to Animals and Prizes

There are countless local entities that have legislation regarding live animals as prizes. However, I work for a local jurisdiction (in a separate capacity) and had the chance to talk to one of our animal control officers just yesterday.

Bottom line of the conversation: auctioning off an animal for the purpose of selling said animal is a grey area - at least where I work. The intent of the statute is to curtail the use of live animals as prizes. However, if I were to hold an auction for the purposes of selling said animal as either a producer or owner of said animal, the locality is unsure whether that fits under the letter and intent of the law as the auction is for the sole purpose of selling the animal, not offering it as a prize or not promoting some other venture by way of offering the animal.

Bottom line - there are "well-respected" breeders who hold auctions for the purpose of selling animals. Some of which most likely do so in jurisdictions where similar bans on using live animals as prizes for promotions exist. Let me repeat: where I live, this is a grey area. If I can prove that the auction is for the intent of selling the animal instead of as a "prize", the common wisdom is that the statute in my locality does not apply.

Bottom Line

Zack and Avi came up with a scheme to make some coin on the morph craze. They decided to use the Penny Auction model to do so. They falsely advertised, they claimed alliances with big names in the hobby that did not exist, and they talked out of both sides of their mouths.

Joe highlighted Zack's questionable past in the hobby. In the end, they got caught and the salient points were brought to light.

All that is good. It is always good to point out a scammer. It is always good to point out someone who may be a shady character with dubious motives.

However, it is not okay to start flinging about baseless crap like a monkey at the zoo, This thread is now littered with countless baseless accusations regarding false shipping labels, rigging bids and the integrity of Wilbanks.

Some of you need to be very careful and keep your egos and your hysteria in check. You have turned this thread from being relevant to borderline embarrassing.

[JLC]

Bottom Line

Zack and Avi came up with a scheme to make some coin on the morph craze. They decided to use the Penny Auction model to do so. They falsely advertised, they claimed alliances with big names in the hobby that did not exist, and they talked out of both sides of their mouths.

Joe highlighted Zack's questionable past in the hobby. In the end, they got caught and the salient points were brought to light.

All that is good. It is always good to point out a scammer. It is always good to point out someone who may be a shady character with dubious motives.

However, it is not okay to start flinging about baseless crap like a monkey at the zoo, This thread is now littered with countless baseless accusations regarding false shipping labels, rigging bids and the integrity of Wilbanks.

Some of you need to be very careful and keep your egos and your hysteria in check. You have turned this thread from being relevant to borderline embarrassing.

Thank you. I could not agree more.

[Ash]

Even with the proper licenses he wouldn't be able to auction off snakes. It states in the local law that it is illegal to give a live animal as a prize for any promotion, event etc that would include auction. It says nothing about needing a license to auction off a live animal. It is illegal, period.

Wait. As much as I dislike ballbids, why are we making such a fuss out of the live animal as a prize thing? It seems to me that we've almost run out of things to complain about and we're stirring up whatever we can in order to keep the drama going.

Isn't there an annual Bailey's clutch contest held on THIS SITE every year? That virtually all of us really enjoy and readily participate in?

I realize that the local law where the Bailey's people are may be different. However, we're still making this huge deal out of it when ballbids does the exact same thing, as if it's objectively morally wrong to be doing it, while we all condone it when somebody we approve of is involved. I'm not defending them, but I'd really prefer it if we could be more discriminating in what we accuse them of.

May he who is without sin...

[Highline Reptiles South]

We are still looking into the law portion. All has went silent when that point was brought up. We will see.

Who is "we"???? Are you a member of some secret ball python law enforcement agency?

I see you have been a member of the site for 8 days and have 1 bp and 27 posts.

Just a few posts back you stated "So after a bit of research and close scrutiny and a bit of digging we discover that the "winner" nrvgonestop has posted not only a fake shipping box and label, that was NEVER in the fed ex system nor even registers a logical shipping weight, ( 1lb for a snake+heat packs+packing+box....really?) but no package was ever shipped to the address. You see fed ex has all that info in their system and with a few questions and descriptions from the label, it was confirmed that that box NEVER shipped anywhere and that a printed label was slapped on it to try and dupe this very aware hobby community. "

For the record, calling someone a liar and printing false information is an act of libel and puts YOU open to a civil tort.

While I certainly don't agree with the model - I think your taking this a bit too seriously.

[ZombieTom]

Hey guys I just posted this over at the Say no to Ballbids site and wanted to post it here as well.

I am withdrawing from this page. I feel the task was accomplished and its current existence is merely to "Spike the Ball". I would be more than willing to rejoin if and when Ballbid resumes operations AND can be PROVEN to be running dishonestly again. I think we accomplish what we set out to do, and that should be enough for now.

[Dawn Michelle]

So this is all retracted?

What was the "research" and close "scrutiny" that was applied here? I'm seeing a lot of pitchforks and bull spit. The focus of this thread should be the outing of someone trying to make a quick buck on the hobby. This thread started circling the drain when people began making baseless accusations and cluttering the joint up with self-important chest beating.

Well Like I already stated, and apologized for the preempted accusatory post in regards to this subject. There were several people looking into the subject of fraud, and at one point what with the avoidance Zack applied to the subject, and certain details that surfaced, I did indeed make this post. I have apologized to Zack, and on all forums for that. The subject is the law and the format to get rich. Again I apologize for any confusion I may have caused. I didn't mean to come across as a "self-important chest beater", as that was not my intention.

[Dawn Michelle]

Who is "we"???? Are you a member of some secret ball python law enforcement agency?

I see you have been a member of the site for 8 days and have 1 bp and 27 posts.

Just a few posts back you stated "So after a bit of research and close scrutiny and a bit of digging we discover that the "winner" nrvgonestop has posted not only a fake shipping box and label, that was NEVER in the fed ex system nor even registers a logical shipping weight, ( 1lb for a snake+heat packs+packing+box....really?) but no package was ever shipped to the address. You see fed ex has all that info in their system and with a few questions and descriptions from the label, it was confirmed that that box NEVER shipped anywhere and that a printed label was slapped on it to try and dupe this very aware hobby community. "

For the record, calling someone a liar and printing false information is an act of libel and puts YOU open to a civil tort.

While I certainly don't agree with the model - I think your taking this a bit too seriously.

You are correct. A post was made about 5 min prematurely, it was my mistake that I take responsibility for. As I have said I have apologized. Though I don't understand why it matters how many BP's I have or how long I have been a member? Anyway, A mistake was made and the appropriate action was taken.