Pet Store Pythons - need to vent

[evan385]

Generally breeders care more about the health and quality of their snakes than chain pet stores. That's just a fact.

[Jessica Loesch]

I agree with wolfy-hound wholeheartedly.

To say breeders care more about their animals is just a fact, well, it is most of the time. Sadly as I mentioned there are exceptions to every rule, even that one. Lots of people get into this business/hobby to "make money." Lots of reptile club members take horrible care of their snakes ... some don't even know they are, and some do.

So let's not JUST blame the pet stores.

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

Our Petcos are far better than our Petsmarts here.

[Anatopism]

Generally breeders care more about the health and quality of their snakes than chain pet stores. That's just a fact.

I think the key point here is ethical breeders care more about health and quality. "breeders" is far too general of a term.. considering Petco gets their snakes from wholesalers who get their snakes from "breeders" from around the country. Some "breeders" provide the bulk of their assortment of snakes for a particular region (if you didn't know, Petco and Petsmart don't all get their animals from ONE location, but rather several different vendors scattered across the country, which then get much of their supply from local breeders in the area). In the same way that each individual store within a company can be horrible vs great due to the staff that work there, there are also bad breeders who don't give a crap about their stock, and there are breeders who do want to produce quality animals.

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

THIS. Don't take the following as my SUPPORT for chain petstores: Chain petstores have regulations, and while we will not all agree with the husbandry, they do have rules to follow, and there are checks in place to ensure at least the bare minimum for the animals in their care. Most animals come and go in a chain petstore very quickly, and do not have to deal with less than ideal conditions too long (again, NOT CONDONING, JUST EXPLAINING). Small mom and pop shops do not have the same expectations or regulations, even if they should. If I had a dime for every illegal baby turtle being sold at an improper size, or for every time my eyes have watered due to the smell of filth in a small mom and pop shop...

[Maixx]

I agree with wolfy-hound wholeheartedly.

To say breeders care more about their animals is just a fact, well, it is most of the time. Sadly as I mentioned there are exceptions to every rule, even that one. Lots of people get into this business/hobby to "make money." Lots of reptile club members take horrible care of their snakes ... some don't even know they are, and some do.

So let's not JUST blame the pet stores.

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

Our Petcos are far better than our Petsmarts here.

I agree with you here, I went to a local "hobby" breeder to look at one of his animals before I bought my pastel, and left his place pretty pissed off after hearing him talk about "culling off" his normals because he needed the room for the eggs he had in his incubator. I'm not sure how common this is but, yeah just because someone's a breeder doesn't mean they are any better or give better care.

[Emily Hubbard]

The difference between a breeder and a pet store is specializing your inventory. Generally speaking, a breeder will only sell one type of animal. Even if they sell multiple reptile species, it is way easier to provide quality care when your entire inventory has the same or similar care needs. When a store has reptiles, fish, rodents, birds, cats, dogs... it is impossible to have enough staff 24/7 that has intimate knowledge of every species' needs, and all animals need daily care by someone with knowledge about there needs. Sure, our snakes can do just fine on there own for a week or so, but only once we have perfected their environmental needs.

I think pet stores are great in that they provide the supplies pet owners need that cannot be found elsewhere. Online shopping is fantastic, I agree, but sometimes you can't wait for something to arrive by mail. Unexpected heat pad malfunction, bulb burnouts... even the most basic of medical supplies, can't wait with reptiles. Even food. I had a chameleon years ago and my cat got into my cricket cage, which I kept outside, and all of the crickets escaped. There was no where locally besides a pet store where I could get more crickets. Where pet stores go wrong is with the live animals, especially it seems the reptiles.

Ball python morphs are the result of generations of captive breeding. The need for imported animals is obsolete. The gene pool is plenty wide and captive hatchlings are thriving. I started this thread to vent about my experience with a local PetCo, and to my knowledge MOST (not all) chain pet stores acquire their animals as African imports and do not have knowledgeable staff.

I actually looked at a ball in a non-chain pet shop about a year ago and asked their on staff reptile "expert," "Is this python captive born or captive hatched?" to which he replied, "Yes." I said, "No, which one?" and he said "I don't know, but its always one of the two." He said all of this while feeding a Taco Bell burrito to an iguana. I could not possibly make that up. I never set foot in that store again.

[Raptor]

The difference with breeders is that they care about the health and quality of their snakes because they want repeat customers. Chain pet stores just want to make as much money as possible and I assume since most only sell normal ball pythons they don't think about repeat customers or breeding as much as breeders that produce morphs. Not saying all of them are bad but most of them only care about making money.

You obviously haven't dealt with breeders very much. While I haven't dealt with a lot of snake breeders, I have dealt with dog breeders and goat breeders. To say that all breeders care about their animals is a load of snake poo. Here's a few examples:

Parents bought a Scottish terrier. Terrier ended up dieing a few years later due to genetic illnesses that we weren't told about.

Parents pre-paid for a goat prior to her being weanable from her dam. When they picked up the goat, we found out that the owners had sold us the wrong animal and that the animal purchased was probably dead. I could go on, and on. Since I help my mom in the goat association registry office, I see a lot of shady things.

And I have to say ... I have seen far more mom and pop shops with horrible setups than chain pet stores, as chain pet stores have more money and rules to follow, where mom and pop shops do it however they want and are often on a tight budget.

This. So much. The worst store I've been to was a mom and pop store. Dead reptiles on display, no water, no hides, it always stunk, it was filthy, etc.

[Skiploder]

Generally breeders care more about the health and quality of their snakes than chain pet stores. That's just a fact.

Travel around the block a few more times and then report back.

You stay in this hobby long enough and you'll be amazed at how silly that statement will seem to you in a few years.

[Jay_Bunny]

With ANY pet store it all boils down to the people they hire. Unfortunately most chain pet stores will hire just about anyone to work in their store. Mom and pop stores too! I don't think the problem is the store itself. Its the lack of training.

I worked at a Petsmart for a year and a half. My co-workers knew little about reptiles and they asked me a lot of questions regarding care and such. The store used to get in lot of weak bearded dragons. As it turns out they were not getting the proper amount of food (the policy of Petsmart is to feed small lizards around 6 small crickets a day) or UVB. This was quickly fixed with a new light bulb and the department manager giving us the okay to feed the bearded dragons as needed.

The problems didn't start until we got a new department manager who knew next to NOTHING about reptiles. Actually I'm pretty sure the only animal she knew anything about was horses. When we got in some mite infested ball pythons (it happens from time to time) she only allowed us to use some natural mite spray we had on the shelf. It helped but with the stress of mites and being treated, the snakes would not eat. They grew horribly thin and I had to resort to assist feeding them (which is against the policy of the store. Only a trained veterinarian is allowed to do it and we had no vets in the area that I would consider to have a working knowledge of reptiles) just to keep them alive.

Eventually I quit to move onto a call center job (really really really wish I hadn't. I hate not working with animals for a living) and per a friend who still works there the snakes in the store still have mites and the manager is still refusing to treat them properly. The old department manager would not have stood for that. Under his management, the animals in that department NEVER went without vet care. Under this new department manager, a rat died because it took her two weeks to call the vet to set up an appointment.

So it really does depend on who works there. When I worked there with the good manager, the animals in that section were rarely sick. We had maybe a max of 2-5 animals in the sick room and some of them were in there for long term illnesses that had to be on constant treatment (hamster with immune system deficiency, bird with unexplained feather loss. It was later adopted and is doing well) It was the change of management that turned the department into Hell. Apparently the store has hired a new girl that knows NOTHING about animals and she does such a piss poor job with the animals two of my co-workers from that store have told me to come back. I'm tempted, but the only way I'd come back to that store is if they gave me control over reptile care.

[Munizfire]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I have to comment (and please note that I'm bot defending Petsmart, but I really don't like false accusations)

All the Petsmarts here in Puerto Rico have BPs that look healthy, I have yet to see 1 unhealthy/sick looking BP, and I can honestly say that I have seen AT LEAST 30 BPs across all their stores in the last few months. Also, they get their BPs from a breeder in Atlanta (I think)...

I don't know about Petco tho




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[Munizfire]

Oh, and of it weren't for wild caught snakes, the BP hobby would have NEVER reached the US, or any other other place in the world for that matter




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