Tank tops. How much ventillation is really needed?

[Mike Cavanaugh]

cover the entire top except for 2 inches at both ends. That and the right sized water bowl will make your humidity perfect all the time.

[VooDooDoc]

Didn't know I could cover that much. That would really help keep the heat in too, which would mean the lamps are on less. I'd like to get rid of the lamps but the UTH is totally worthless at getting the ambient temp up.

Putting a wet wash cloth on the top over night really made a difference and kept it at 50-60% humidity. I'm not sure if the humidity rise was a direct result or just the fact that humidity levels in my house finally leveled off after having the windows open the other day.

[kitedemon]

why not just use a humid hide?

[Mike Cavanaugh]

why not just use a humid hide?

they aren't necessary.

To the OP, ditch the lights completely. I know it sucks cause you bought them, but they are counter productive.

forget about ambient temperature completely. cover the top like I said, get the hot spot from uth set right and you are good to go. Been using that exact setup for years and years without issue.

[kitedemon]

Ambient temps are critical for thermoregulation. Humid hides are the easiest solution to the problem simpler and less risky than using exhaled breath to increase humidity.

Anatomy 101

Snakes have a long lung (many have a small lung too but it is mostly assist for the main lung) The heart, liver and all major arteries and blood vessels pass along that lung. If the air with in the lung is cool the blood will be cooled. Surface temps warming the ventral muscle system may be unable to counter cool air temps. Most keep the ambient air temp at or near 80ºF.

"TEMPERATURE
~80F (ambient temps)
~90F (basking temps)
75 or below is unhealthy"

Quoted from the care sheet from this site. It doesn't matter how you get temps just get them and maintain them.

[snakesRkewl]

Tubs have WAY less ventilation than 2 inches of the top of a tank being open, I agree with Mike, close that lid up as much as possible, make sure the humidity is sufficient and the heat is right and you'll be golden.
They do not need a lot of ventilation, some yes but not a lot.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Ambient temps are critical for thermoregulation. Humid hides are the easiest solution to the problem simpler and less risky than using exhaled breath to increase humidity.

Anatomy 101

Snakes have a long lung (many have a small lung too but it is mostly assist for the main lung) The heart, liver and all major arteries and blood vessels pass along that lung. If the air with in the lung is cool the blood will be cooled. Surface temps warming the ventral muscle system may be unable to counter cool air temps. Most keep the ambient air temp at or near 80ºF.

"TEMPERATURE
~80F (ambient temps)
~90F (basking temps)
75 or below is unhealthy"

Quoted from the care sheet from this site. It doesn't matter how you get temps just get them and maintain them.

Shhhh! talk quietly, I don't want my snakes to hear you! They may figure out they are not supposed to be thriving the way they have been set up for years!

Funny, I don't know of a single big time breeder that uses humid hides.... Nor do I know of a single one concerned with "exhaled breath"... especially since most of us use tubs with a couple wholes melted in the top...

[kitedemon]

they aren't necessary.

To the OP, ditch the lights completely. I know it sucks cause you bought them, but they are counter productive.

forget about ambient temperature completely. cover the top like I said, get the hot spot from uth set right and you are good to go. Been using that exact setup for years and years without issue.

This is the real concern here. You do not keep your ambient temps at or close to 80????

OP I am sure Mike is confused and did not actually mean what he has said, You NEED temps around 90ºF and ambient temps of around 80ºF. The question of humidity takes a back seat to temps INSURE your temps are correct!!!!



I can't tell you how little ventilation is too little but I can tell you Tub and tanks behave differently. Tanks are taller the dead air spot on the ends also is bigger. I can prove that high humidity and low air flow cause health issues I can prove that low ambient temps cause health issues. I believe you keep you animal at a correct ambient temp so don't recommend to a beginner that they do not need to worry about ambient temps.

I don't know a big time breeder whom does not have the entire collection is a controlled room ambient air temp at 80 (or so) and humidity at 60 or so. Are you suggesting that you know a breeder whom has ambient are temps that are close to a normal house hold room (68) and that if you keep a Royal at 90/68 there will be no health issues? Go ahead a say what ever this you want I have offered good advise and have a clear conscious.

OP,
I can't tell you how little is a problem I can only say that it can be (read this...
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ons-The-Basics fourth paragraph)

Also Dr. J. Rossi 'what's wrong with my snake?" pp115 "...plastic containers with poor ventilation seem especially prone to fungal pneumonias, but any snake housed in moist conditions for long is a prime candidate."

The owners of VPI one of the oldest breeders of royals also say that you cannot have too much ventilation and warn against too little.

It is clear to me that there is enough evidence to suggest that too little ventilation and humidity can lead to health issues. I suggest a way to resolve the issue with out too much effort and compromise, of health. It is also clear that covering some of the lid of a tank is not a problem what is unclear is how much. Your set up, my set up, Mikes set up are unique. I am going to strongly disagree with the ambient air temp hopefully you have read enough care sheets to understand that you need ambient air temps around 80ºF for a healthily snake to suggest otherwise is simply wrong, I have never seen a care sheet that states otherwise. Controlling ambient temps is the biggest issue of many beginners whom do not have the commitment, space or resources to heat a room to 80º and keep it there, this is where the issue is. It must be done and the only way on a small scale is locally, globally is very inefficient.

[VooDooDoc]

why not just use a humid hide?

That's always an option, I've done some reading, seems pretty straight forward.

To the OP, ditch the lights completely. I know it sucks cause you bought them, but they are counter productive.
.

I don't care one bit about the monetary aspect, but I don't have the luxury of making an entire room hot enough to go without. If it turns out I can close off the top some and the UTH is enough then of course the lights will go bye-bye.

OP I am sure Mike is confused and did not actually mean what he has said, You NEED temps around 90ºF and ambient temps of around 80ºF. The question of humidity takes a back seat to temps INSURE your temps are correct!!!!
.

Temps are fine. Not going to sacrifice temp for humidity, I can keep humidity where I want it just depends on misting, putting wet towels on top, etc. I'd like to simplify the whole process though. Especially when I'm not around and the wife is watching things.

Here is a picture of what I came up with, this is a 20 gal long tank, so that's like 30x13. I took a piece of acrylic (that stuff is a giant pain to work with) cut it to size and drilled 1/4" holes in 2 rows. Have had it on for about 30 minutes and humidity has risen 10% (its a very dry day here and I misted earlier), without the lights though the temps have fallen to 75. Gonna go back to the way it was for now till I can figure out a way to rig one or both of the lights up above the acrylic. Not sure if it can melt so I don't want to get them too close.


Think I might also drill another row of air holes. Though this sort of matches kitdemon's aquarium on its side idea so maybe its enough.

[kitedemon]

Use your nose. If it smells anything other than clean and fresh (stale old closed basment) it likely needs more. Where the holes are in relation or heat likely has as much effect as size and numbers.