Why would anyone buy a rack?

[mainbutter]

@the OP:

Materials.. what are you using?

If I were going to go with the materials that are used in the racks I've purchased, after looking @ total costs and time involved to make my own, I wouldn't even be working for minimum wage.

However if I was going to use cheaper materials, I'd certainly save some dough.

[tuffstuff07]

alright i went the bought vs build route for my 1st one. why? I cant build stuff. My wife and her father could easily but it wouldnt be as nice as the one I bought.

I got a 5 tub 15/34 qt from the tinley show made out of melamine 3/4" i believe. It is laser cut and if you buy a 2nd one is notched so you can stack them.

I spent 150 on the rack and I wanna say 30 on the heat tape. The whole rack is tongue and grooved and pre drilled for the screws. Each shelf is grooved so all you gotta do is drop the heat tape down through the back of each shelf.

I went also with the fact that I rarely have the time to sit and build stuff nor the tools. I could get them cut at our lowes or get my father in law to but its easier for me just to pick it up and bring it home and assemble.

Also didnt help that I had bought my pied and the het pied female at that show and had no where to put them. And 2 more tanks would have been more than the rack itself and I know I am not done buying morphs.

[strikerball21]

@the OP:

Materials.. what are you using?

If I were going to go with the materials that are used in the racks I've purchased, after looking @ total costs and time involved to make my own, I wouldn't even be working for minimum wage.

However if I was going to use cheaper materials, I'd certainly save some dough.

Minimum wage un my state is $7.75 soo u must be taking wayyy to long.. in cali its like 10.50..
Minimum or even average wage isn't $20 more like 8

[VEXER19]

Thanks for all of your points. For those of you who think I was being rude for my one comment we you are intitled to your own opinion. Because obviously I know you can buy anything for cheap and for any budget. I thought it was obvious that I was talking about freedom breeders and other nice racks that are manufactured and not had built. All I was saying is that I work full time and I enjoy building things. I get a sense of joy out of creating things. Probably the same feeling that most of you get when you get that new clutch. I understand that obviously that some people can afford these racks and I could if I wanted to I just dont want to. And dont think you can calculate your own personal labor into the cost of your rack unless you were planning on selling it. Now if it is only like $40 bucks more to just buy it, well obviously just buy. And If every hour of your free time is worth $50 then I dont even want to know why your free time is that limited. But I guess everyone has their own opinions on how they look at this post. It just became much more than I was personally trying to talk about. So this thread is garbage to me now.

P.S. Thanks for the few of you who actually understood what I was talking about in this thread and sorry if it offended any of you who spent that much money on a rack. In some cases I understand but to me I could make any rack Ive seen for half the price.

[Kara]

It's funny...you say you "understand" but still come in with a condescending tone towards anyone who had a different opinion than yours. It's not a matter of someone's free time being "so limited" - obviously people just have different values & goals with how they want to spend their free time than you do.

If you want to go build racks, go build racks to your heart's content. Just don't knock those who choose to buy. It REALLY is that simple. Cage manufacturers are an integral part of this hobby and industry. Looking back on how much caging technology has changed, evolved and adapted to meet the needs of providing better, more efficient, species-friendly housing for all the different types of critters available in the reptile trade, it's pretty impressive. Keep in mind that a lot of cage builders have spent most of their lives investing in, researching, upgrading, changing, and improving their cage/rack designs. They've tried and failed, tried again and succeeded, met customer demands, suggestions, etc. There's a lot of thought & detail that goes into many of the caging systems out there, and the people behind them are an important aspect of the herp hobby.

Also, have you been to some of the cage builder's shops, like Freedom Breeder and Animal Plastics? Do you know how their products are built, how much of it is done by hand vs. "manufactured"? For some reason you seem to have this visual of a giant factory cranking out cage after cage...believe it or not, that's not how it works. I've visited both facilities - there is a lot of work & individual hands-on detail that goes into each unit, and each facility has a team of people whose jobs depend on the quality of work they do & cages they provide to their customers. Just some food for thought.

Thanks for all of your points. For those of you who think I was being rude for my one comment we you are intitled to your own opinion. Because obviously I know you can buy anything for cheap and for any budget. I thought it was obvious that I was talking about freedom breeders and other nice racks that are manufactured and not had built. All I was saying is that I work full time and I enjoy building things. I get a sense of joy out of creating things. Probably the same feeling that most of you get when you get that new clutch. I understand that obviously that some people can afford these racks and I could if I wanted to I just dont want to. And dont think you can calculate your own personal labor into the cost of your rack unless you were planning on selling it. Now if it is only like $40 bucks more to just buy it, well obviously just buy. And If every hour of your free time is worth $50 then I dont even want to know why your free time is that limited. But I guess everyone has their own opinions on how they look at this post. It just became much more than I was personally trying to talk about. So this thread is garbage to me now.

P.S. Thanks for the few of you who actually understood what I was talking about in this thread and sorry if it offended any of you who spent that much money on a rack. In some cases I understand but to me I could make any rack Ive seen for half the price.

[VEXER19]

It's funny...you say you "understand" but still come in with a condescending tone towards anyone who had a different opinion than yours. It's not a matter of someone's free time being "so limited" - obviously people just have different values & goals with how they want to spend their free time than you do.

If you want to go build racks, go build racks to your heart's content. Just don't knock those who choose to buy. It REALLY is that simple.

I dont care if you were to buy or not. I would love to buy. The whole point is that people were missing the point. All I was saying is that racks are way overpriced for the materials used to make them. Thats it. Then people were telling me you can buy used. Well, EBAY,obviously you can by anything used. And then compare it to getting a car fixed and labor. There is no labor in a manufactured product. All I was trying to say is that the pricing is outrageous. Im all for buying used. And I would love to buy a new rack in the future just not at those prices. I was also talking about full size racks and people keep bringing up 4 bin racks and smaller racks and that is not what I was referring to. In the end all I was saying from a buyers point of view. That it seems a little pricey for a NEW and LARGER rack then say an HD tv. Now the ones that come in your house and install I can understand asking those prices for. But they should be cheaper and charge and installment fee if the buyer so chooses to have them install it. But you can all keep being critical of me wanting people to stay on topic with the post and not bring up a bunch of things that arent even apart of what I was saying. Either way I really dont care, so think what you want of me. My only concern is the care of animals and the ablitly for others to be able to purchase resonably priced items to take care of their animals properly. I could get into the prices of just little bushes and trees and extras and those rediculous prices as well. But it obvioulsy wouldnt be a convo to start on this forum. Hope I dont ruin anyone elses day with this post...lol.

[jtomb1510]

Just an FYI, Freedom Breeder racks are built on site in their metal shop from the ground up. I own several and have spoken on the phone with the guys over there a bunch. Yes they are expensive but they are the best of the best in my opinion and you get what you pay for.

[Kara]

There are racks & cages out there for every price range & every budget. Just because they may not fit into yours does not make them "way overpriced." Keep in mind that enclosure builders have bills & employees to pay, but they also have to price their products at a level where people will buy them steadily enough to support day-to-day business.

I feel that many enclosures out there (and I've tried several different types over the past 15+ years) are pretty fairly priced for the quality you get and the functions they are built to perform (i.e. Freedom Breeders, Vision, AP) etc. The quality, the longevity of the product, the purpose-built design & materials used all go a LONG way towards providing the optimal environment for an animal, and that all adds into the overall value of such a rack or cage, especially when dealing with a larger collection.

Also keep in mind, not every cage or rack is perfect for every situation, and that affects one's "perceived value" of that product. The more "open airflow" design of a Freedom Breeder, ARS or Vision rack would not work as well in a space that was not specifically climate-controlled (i.e. for a couple of snakes in a one-bedroom apartment with temps set for human comfort), but is a better choice for someone who has a calibrated snake room with ideal temps & humidity. For that purpose, it would be a case of "too much rack" rather than too much money, and as such of a different value than it would for someone who could utilize the rack for its actual, intended use.

I currently have 200+ snakes, and could not imagine the time it would take to build enclosures for them all here at home. KNOWING that I can call my preferred cage manufacturer and get exactly what I want in a reasonable time frame and know that it will work for my situation is way more valuable than the possibility of saving money by building them at home. They have the tools, the resources & can get better pricing on materials than I ever could for the quantity that I'd need to do so myself.

I guess that was a long winded way of saying, "It's all a matter of perspective and experience." And no worries there kiddo...your post certainly didn't ruin my day. Hope it didn't ruin yours, either. It's been a fun debate.

I dont care if you were to buy or not. I would love to buy. The whole point is that people were missing the point. All I was saying is that racks are way overpriced for the materials used to make them. Thats it. Then people were telling me you can buy used. Well, EBAY,obviously you can by anything used. And then compare it to getting a car fixed and labor. There is no labor in a manufactured product. All I was trying to say is that the pricing is outrageous. Im all for buying used. And I would love to buy a new rack in the future just not at those prices. I was also talking about full size racks and people keep bringing up 4 bin racks and smaller racks and that is not what I was referring to. In the end all I was saying from a buyers point of view. That it seems a little pricey for a NEW and LARGER rack then say an HD tv. Now the ones that come in your house and install I can understand asking those prices for. But they should be cheaper and charge and installment fee if the buyer so chooses to have them install it. But you can all keep being critical of me wanting people to stay on topic with the post and not bring up a bunch of things that arent even apart of what I was saying. Either way I really dont care, so think what you want of me. My only concern is the care of animals and the ablitly for others to be able to purchase resonably priced items to take care of their animals properly. I could get into the prices of just little bushes and trees and extras and those rediculous prices as well. But it obvioulsy wouldnt be a convo to start on this forum. Hope I dont ruin anyone elses day with this post...lol.

[Skiploder]

Simple calculations on the amount of 1/2" XPVC required to build a 4x2x2 cage.

4 - 4x2 pieces (top and bottom, front and back). Some depending on orientation, measurements will be an 1" or so off in various dimensions.

2 - 2x2 pieces (sides)

That works out to about 72 square feets of XPVC - keep in mind that even for the front sections with the doors you still have to buy either a full piece and route out the opening or cut a bunch of trim pieces out.

At Tap Plastics, the materials alone would be $286.00. This does not include doors of any kind, any hardware or any heating. Once you add in plexiglass for the doors ($30), hardware ($10) and heat tape, the cost rises to $337.80. That does not even factor in the cost you have to pay some poor shmuck to fab it all up.

Check for yourself:

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=342&

Animal Plastics will gladly sell you a cage of the same dimensions and made out of the same material for $339.00 + shipping.

http://www.animalplastics.com/

So in the end, your only savings on a cage of this sort is in the shipping costs. A whopping $50.00 or so. If you factor in labor, there is even less savings, if any.

The same pricing goes for racks. As I've said, I've built my own racks and I've purchased racks. The savings on an apples to apples comparison are trivial. If I were to compare the cost of building an XPVC rack to a metal rack, the results would be different - but no one would be dumb enough to debate the saving between building a wood rack versus one made from a more expensive material, would they?

In other words, been there done that. Built them big, and built them small. There is little to no savings to be had. People who opt to buy instead of wasting their time saving a few pennies aren't lazy - they are actually smart. In most cases, they are getting a better product for a comparable price.

[Misfit]

I wish I had spent my money on buying a PVC rack instead of building the behemoth of a melamine rack that now forever lives where it is in my snake room. There's no way I'm moving that thing! lol I plan on scrapping it and buying some PVC racks from AP.

After saying that.. it does seem very over-priced at first look, but after reading what everyone has to say here it definitely seems like an appropriate price. :>