whats a good starting moniter

[Skiploder]

I guess it's all monitor people that are extremely hard on newbies. Another good reason to NOT get a monitor.

You "experts" have been great. Peace out!

No monitor keepers are actually very helpful when it comes to assisting people with questions. However, the two monitor forums don't really cater to people who can't be bothered to do basic research.

There are two problems here and neither have to do with the "experts" as you so poutily made reference to.

It has to do with people who have nor experience giving out bad advice, and it has to do with the notion that any sort of monitor is a beginning pet.

There are plenty of monitor species I have absolutely no experience with. I do have experience with both acanthurus and tristis, and can positively assert that even though they are easier to keep than most other varanids, they are still more difficult to keep than just about any other reptile out there.

After seeings sick and neglected varanids over many, many years, I have absolutely no patience with someone conceited enough and unwise enough to state that varanids aren't that hard to keep.

There is a difference between being a jerk and being a person who cares more about the fate of somne innocent animal than the feelings of someone immature enough to give out advice on something they know nothing about. If that bothers you, feel free to put all of us "varanid" experts on ignore. It won't hurt our feelings one bit.

To the OP: my advice still stands. Join Varanus.nl and browse/search the forums. Take a hard look at the following when you search through the posts:

(1) Ackie set-ups.

(2) Discussions regarding optimum substrate type and depth.

(3) Discussions regarding optimum temperatures, humidity and thermoregulation zones.

(4) Discussions regarding proper diet.

You will see a trend in the posts. Pay particular attention to the complexity of the setups in terms of space in 3-dimensions and how those requirements are met. Pay close attention to how keepers provide for varying levels of basking requirements and the temps of each.

Understand what substrate is preferred, how it's mixed and why it is necessary to provide. It's not enough to understand what all of these requirements are, but why? Understanding "why" is the key to meeting the many requirements of these animals.

After you've done that research, ask yourself if you can properly provide for these requirements.

After you've done all that, I have no issues offering you further advice or information via PM. I'd hazard a guess that Chris would offer you the same help. All I ask is that you put in the effort to do your own research to cover the basics and have the maturity to accurately assess as to whether or not you are ready for this level of commitment to an animal.

[Reakt20]

I had a nile monitor given to me when i was just out of high school with little knowledge about them. Poor guy...nuff said.

Definitely NOT for the beginner or intermediate herp enthusiast.

Just my 2 cents..

[Skiploder]

Thanks for all the good info. Monitors had crossed my mind and you have effectively talked me out of getting one. Good job!

Are there any other small, easy to care for, not huge enclosure, rodent eating reptiles that are fun to keep?

I have said this before and I'll say it again - I keep over 30 snakes and have done so for over three decades. Maintaining a building full of snakes is much easier than maintaining just a couple of species of monitor. As an adult with little in the way of budget restrictions and a separate structure on our property for our animals, I made the hard decision to stop keeping and breeding varanids over a year ago. I have the healthiest of respect for people who continue to properly care for these animals and still find a way to spend time with their wives, raise their kids and work their jobs.

Many of the most commonly kept small varanids (like ackies and tristis) do best on insectivorious diets. All sorts of health issues can arise when fed rodent diets.

While a pair of ackies can do well in an enclosure in the 4x2 size range (the bare minimum in terms of floor space), their need to burrow requires a deep, diggable substrate that retains humidity without getting to wet. That requires an additional two to three feet in depth and substantial weight.

It also requires some skill in setting up a basking site in excess of 140 degrees while maintaining the proper ambient.

So to sum it up, I know of no small monitor that eats rodents. While the enclosure size required is not "huge" it is certainly larger in three dimensions and much heavier than any comparable set-up for another species of lizard.

[JohnNJ]

So to sum it up, I know of no small monitor that eats rodents. While the enclosure size required is not "huge" it is certainly larger in three dimensions and much heavier than any comparable set-up for another species of lizard.

I didn't say monitor. I said reptile. I will never get a monitor based on their needs and my time. So again, any other reptiles fit the bill?

[Skiploder]

I didn't say monitor. I said reptile. I will never get a monitor based on their needs and my time. So again, any other reptiles fit the bill?

None that I have any experience with.

If the rodent thing is negotiable, I've always enjoyed keeping uromastyx. While they are not "easy" to keep, they are much, much easier than varanids.

If we are talking ANY reptiles, there are many smaller species of colubrids that are much more interactive than ball pythons. Rhamphiophis, many of the smaller pituophis, etc.

If you have a little bit more room, any of the drymarchon are as close as you can get to a monitor lizard in a snake. Relatviely intelligent, reactive to their owners.......................

[JohnNJ]

None that I have any experience with.

If the rodent thing is negotiable, I've always enjoyed keeping uromastyx. While they are not "easy" to keep, they are much, much easier than varanids.

If we are talking ANY reptiles, there are many smaller species of colubrids that are much more interactive than ball pythons. Rhamphiophis, many of the smaller pituophis, etc.

If you have a little bit more room, any of the drymarchon are as close as you can get to a monitor lizard in a snake. Relatviely intelligent, reactive to their owners.......................

My fault for not clarifying further. Non-snake reptile.

[scale_fever]

Ive have had geckos,skinks,tegus,bearded dragons & nothing comes close to what a monitor requires to live properly.As said they need huge enclosure comparing to other reptiles,need deep substrate & require diferente level of heat threw out the enclosure,with lots of hiding spaces & proper diverse feeding of what there diet consistes in the wild.If over feed there will be consequences!!! Varanus are not for any beginer reptiles.After having all these pets above & then some I tried my self to raise one & failed,its ben quite a while & im still debating if i should get another ,or quit. I have a 4 x 3 x3 enclosure ,that i might give it a try one more time..The savannah monitor or varanus exanthematicus is truelly the most abused reptile in the trade...Its sad to see so many Varanus are perished from poor knowlegde from there owners......Its really what you want to do,or really want...Just remember do alot of reading researching before even building a enclosure to house one...never get one,without having the proper housing please...The best of luck to what you decide to do....

[kevinb]

To clarify my opinion and not start more uproar I will say this. One: it is better to research before anything, and sometimes when someone asks what a good monitor, snake, turtle, etc to start with they are looking for a narrower search than what there is out there, so I don't understand why everyone bashes someone for asking a question on guidence towards a better idea. Two: yes I have never kept a monitor before, and I don't have any experience with them, but giving someone a flake of a possible idea and getting yelled at about it isn't the best way of handling things. Three: difficulty is really in the eye of the beholder, one thing can be easy for one and hard for another, just like anything.

And I'm just going to close with this. Research is your best and noble friend, no one would get anywhere without it. So do loads before jumping into anything, and if you find you can't handle it before hand then don't do it. I didn't mean to sound like a royal jerk on my previous posts. I just find it offensive that I can't anwser someones question, leading them to a better point to look into and research and get attacked for lack of experience. There really is no good "starter" monitor, and ill admit that, so your either dedicating a lot of time, money, and sweat into them or they aren't for you. I don't have one for that reason. I'm never home and don't have the time for the upcare.

So before attacking anyone look at the picture as a whole not a piece of it.

Thank you
And again sorry for my juvenile behavior.



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[Gx3]

I have never owned a monitor but I have a 4 year old Argentine tegu that I wouldn't trade for ANYTHING! He is awesome and has a great personality. He is nothing at all like a python (in regards to caging, interacting, feeding, lighting/heating, etc. ---he requires a lot more attention) but in my opinion he is a lot of fun and has an individual personality (he has the demeanor of a cat). AND what does make raising Argentine tegus easier to raise is that they hibernate for about 4-5 months out of the year.

Overall large lizards (in my experience) are VERY rewarding, but they do require a large commitment compared with any other reptile I have owned. And make sure to do LOTS and LOTS of research before diving in. I researched tegus for about 6 months before ordering one from Bobby at Varnyard (highly recommend) before it was born and waited about 4 months to get it.

[gardenfiend138]

I really hope varanus.nl accepts my request...it would be nice to lurk from experienced keepers. Is cybersalvator the other forum that's good? Otherwise the only forums I've been able to find are sub-forums on other snake/ reptile forums...