Do all morphs get "head wobble"?

[Genetics Breeder]

And you believe that chihuahua breeders woudn't dare cull a problem puppy?

How dare they breed them - and how dare you keep them to support the market and encourage breeders to continue to fill demand?

I paid the humane society. One was even free. Oh no, another empty cage to be filled at the humane society!

[Reakt20]

There brains are too small to have any kind of complex emotion. You are dealing with instincts when it comes to snakes. They get frightened, they get hungry, they get thirsty, they get horny, and they relax. If any of these instincts are compromised, it can stress them. That's about it. Of course I don't have "scientific proof." Maybe I should pull the "common sense" card like you did. when I finish my major in Biology after I get my A.A.S. in Electron Microscopy this spring, maybe i'll process some brain tissue from some of these non thriving mutant melancholy spiders and make a conclusion to my hyphothesis. I can tell you this though. My guess is a heck of a lot more educated than yours.

[Reakt20]

The closest thing to happiness that a snake "feels" is pleasure, as in sensory pleasure being the motivation in their decision making. This is what drives their instinct to feed, to flee, to defend, to relax, to poop, to seek water, to raise temperature, etc.

Edit: As far as them not being happy because they are somehow consciously aware that they have a neurological "problem", that is a belief of stupidity.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I don't care if people kept spiders as pets. It's when they breed them that they know there is a chance of it being messed up.

Ok... time to answer would should be a VERY simple question (judging by the way you talk)

What, exactly, do you have that proves a spider has a better chance of being "messed up" then any other morph?

And I am asumming that when you say "messed up" you are refering to animals that die without force feeding.

[meowmeowkazoo]

So they don't have emotions? How do you know? What lab did you test emotional responses and keep track of records in? I know my leopard geckos could be 'happy' or the reptile equivalent by how they act. I don't have a scientific answer, but neither do you. People know that they probably don't get lonely, that doesn't mean they don't have emotions. Emotions are critical to making decisions and survival.

Actually, emotions commonly get in the way of making decisions and/or survival. Haven't you ever watched a zombie movie?

In all seriousness though, I have owned animals most of my life. I do believe that my cats experience emotions. I also believe that my rats experience emotions. I do not believe that my snakes experience emotions any more than my tropical fish do.

I feel affectionate towards all of my pets, but I never have and never will expect my snakes to return that affection. To them, I'm a large, fleshy tree that occasionally shows up and drops dead rats on them.

Once you've owned a snake for any length of time you really start to understand how alien they are when compared to mammals. They eat differently, they breathe differently, they digest food differently.

Because humans are inescapably social animals, I can understand how it would be hard to come to terms with the idea that some animals are so very different from us. It can be hard to imagine an animal being motivated by nothing more than a drive to live and propagate the species.

All of this leads me to believe that while you are a well-meaning person, you really don't have much experience owning snakes. I'm surprised that you have kept arguing for so long. I admire that you are willing to defend your point of view, but it's a good thing to be able to admit when you might be wrong, or when you might need more experience in a given subject.

[rabernet]

I already said, I don't care if people buy problematic animals. I DO if they BREED them. My dogs are ALL FIXED. I NEVER considered breeding them. I said it was stupid for people to buy and breed spiders, meaning buying a spider only to plan on breeding it, before they even bought one.

No - actually, you're back peddling. You said:

But still, nobody said why they weren't able to avoid buying spiders with all the alternative morphs.

You did NOT quantify it with buying AND breeding.

I happen to think it's stupid to draw the conclusions that you have based on on anecdotal stories communicated to you, and your observations a reptile show, with no PERSONAL experience with spiders.

And I still think you're a hypocrite.

[rabernet]

I paid the humane society. One was even free. Oh no, another empty cage to be filled at the humane society!

Deflecting again, I see. You criticize anyone for breeding and keeping spiders when there are so many other choices.

The Humane Society had many other breeds of dogs to choose from, yet you knowingly chose to adopt a breed with known problems, a breed that some breeders will cull problematic puppies.

I think that people should stop keeping chihuahua's when there are KNOWN problems that are stressing them in their lives. After all, if there's a CHANCE that some of them could have problems that might cause stress in their lives, then those people who keep them are STUPID to keep them. You know stress directly affects their quality of life, and we can't have that. No way, no how!

Especially when chihuahua breeders are...gasp....culling puppies! O-M-G!

Come with me - let's go find a dog forum and spread the word - down with chihuahuas!!! No one should ever breed chihuahua's ever again!!!!

[Genetics Breeder]

No - actually, you're back peddling. You said:



You did NOT quantify it with buying AND breeding.
Obviously, people don't always write everything they are thinking. I meant to buy and breed them. Keeping one as a pet is different.

I happen to think it's stupid to draw the conclusions that you have based on on anecdotal stories communicated to you, and your observations a reptile show, with no PERSONAL experience with spiders.
Are you saying they don't have problems? I KNOW they do. There is no reason, other than lack of self control, that people couldn't breed alternative morphs instead. I guess if they think they have the money for it, like a cheap spider, people can get whatever they want without caring about the problems.

And I still think you're a hypocrite.
And you also think I am 'for' breeding ANY dogs, which I am not. Twice you were wrong by assuming.

[Genetics Breeder]

Deflecting again, I see. You criticize anyone for breeding and keeping spiders when there are so many other choices.

The Humane Society had many other breeds of dogs to choose from,
So you have been to the humane society near my house? They have mutts, and a lot of rottweiler, pit bull, and chow mixes. So, it would be better to have one with possible problems AS A PET, than one that would be extremely aggressive.
yet you knowingly chose to adopt a breed with known problems, a breed that some breeders will cull problematic puppies.
[/B]You seem to not be reading what I wrote. They are not from a breeder. Also, how would the puppies be 'problematic'?[/B]
I think that people should stop keeping chihuahua's when there are KNOWN problems that are stressing them in their lives. After all, if there's a CHANCE that some of them could have problems that might cause stress in their lives, then those people who keep them are STUPID to keep them. You know stress directly affects their quality of life, and we can't have that. No way, no how!

Especially when chihuahua breeders are...gasp....culling puppies! O-M-G!

Come with me - let's go find a dog forum and spread the word - down with chihuahuas!!! No one should ever breed chihuahua's ever again!!!!

[/B]I am against breeding ANY dogs. Not just Chihuahuas. If someone offered me a free pet spider ball python, I would either take it as a pet, or sell it. I wouldn't breed it.[/B]

[bad-one]

I am against breeding ANY dogs. Not just Chihuahuas. If someone offered me a free pet spider ball python, I would either take it as a pet, or sell it. I wouldn't breed it.

I take it you'd prefer a world without dogs as apparently it's wrong for anyone to breed them.

If you are so against breeding animals with any problems (or the potential to have them), I think it's time you find a new hobby. There's no such thing as perfection in the animal kingdom