Obtained my first Ball this weekend, locally from Santa Cruz Reptiles!

[pythoncrazy]

Oh and she ate 2 x 100g rats tonight!

Personally I don't know where he's getting his information from. Cat litter is not good at all because the substrate needs to be something that holds humidity well and cat litter does not. Also the heat pad for humans is not made to be on constantly and you will have much more problems with this than a heat pad made for reptiles that is made to be a constant heat source. If you have her in a twenty gallon tank or something like that she needs to be at least a forty gallon breeder, twenty gallons is much too small for an adult ball python. And about this 200g of rat per month this is also incorrect. A ball python of her size should be eating at least an XL rat(275-375g) if not an XXL rat(375-475g) every two weeks. Basically she needs to eat a rat that's as big around maybe slightly smaller than the biggest part of her body every two weeks. I don't know where this guy went to school but he's feeding you bad information. This is the best website for herp information. Some of the best breeders, herp experts, and herp enthusiasts are on this site. You need to listen to what we're telling you.

[pythoncrazy]

Also, welcome to BP.net and have a great day

[ballpythonluvr]

Personally I don't know where he's getting his information from. Cat litter is not good at all because the substrate needs to be something that holds humidity well and cat litter does not. Also the heat pad for humans is not made to be on constantly and you will have much more problems with this than a heat pad made for reptiles that is made to be a constant heat source. If you have her in a twenty gallon tank or something like that she needs to be at least a forty gallon breeder, twenty gallons is much too small for an adult ball python. And about this 200g of rat per month this is also incorrect. A ball python of her size should be eating at least an XL rat(275-375g) if not an XXL rat(375-475g) every two weeks. Basically she needs to eat a rat that's as big around maybe slightly smaller than the biggest part of her body every two weeks. I don't know where this guy went to school but he's feeding you bad information. This is the best website for herp information. Some of the best breeders, herp experts, and herp enthusiasts are on this site. You need to listen to what we're telling you.

For your information, I don't know anyone on this site that feeds their ball pythons XL or XXL rats.

[pythoncrazy]

For your information, I don't know anyone on this site that feeds their ball pythons XL or XXL rats.

I was going on sizes based on rodentpro.com if you look at the picture XL rats are about as wide as a dollar so an adult female ball python should be able to eat one easily. I'm not sure that I would agree to the ages this website has for rat sizes but they say an adult sized rat is XL and a large rat is 45-60 days old. And XL rats from their pictures are not much bigger than large rats. But I heard from yahoo answers that an adult sized rat is five-six months old so I don't know.

[Smoked Oyster]

I was going on sizes based on rodentpro.com if you look at the picture XL rats are about as wide as a dollar so an adult female ball python should be able to eat one easily. I'm not sure that I would agree to the ages this website has for rat sizes but they say an adult sized rat is XL and a large rat is 45-60 days old. And XL rats from their pictures are not much bigger than large rats. But I heard from yahoo answers that an adult sized rat is five-six months old so I don't know.

Surely there is a scientific formula for appropriate feeding of a snake, represented as a proportion of food weight to snake weight. I have not seen it yet on this site. Most of what I read expresses the formula as something like "one large rat every 2 weeks". That's just not very accurate IMO.

Please can someone who actually knows this tell me what the formula should be? For example "10% of body weight per month" or whatever the correct formula should be?

[L.West]

Hi, I believe it is 15% of their body weight for the weight of the rodent.

Good Luck

[Smoked Oyster]

Hi, I believe it is 15% of their body weight for the weight of the rodent.

Good Luck

Frequency needs to be part of the formula.

[Crawly's Mom]

Frequency as I understand it varies depending on the time of the year. Females preparing to breed will eat once a week, however, once every other week for a ball python who is not breeding is good.

I think you should perhaps take a look at what you're doing and the opinions you have made. I know you were told one thing by a breeder who you believe was reliable, however, nobody seems to have heard of this breeder. This is one of the most reputable sites for ball pythons on the web, many top name breeders frequent it. You don't think its odd nobody has heard of this person or that everyone disagrees with him?

Not a single person has said, yes the substate and heating choice is a good idea. You have had educated responses where people explain why these choices are made, why there are alternatives better than what you're using and yet you choose to believe one person who nobody has heard of. Sometimes there are alternatives, yes, but there are also methods that have been proven to work for many people. Why go out on a limb when you have the information right in front of you that everyone knows works?

[Vypyrz]

This thread is getting confusing...

Surely there is a scientific formula for appropriate feeding of a snake, represented as a proportion of food weight to snake weight. I have not seen it yet on this site. Most of what I read expresses the formula as something like "one large rat every 2 weeks". That's just not very accurate IMO.

Please can someone who actually knows this tell me what the formula should be? For example "10% of body weight per month" or whatever the correct formula should be?

I don't believe that there is any concrete formula to follow. Only recommended guidelines based on experience with different species. It is generally recommended for 10%-15% per week for juvenile BP's because they are growing rapidly and will utilize the extra nutrition, but even this guideline doesn't hold true for all species. At some point, feeding frequency and prey size will have to be adjusted for each individual snake based on what keeps them feeding regularly and healthy, whether it's 1,2,3, or 4 times a month will vary. Also vigilance must be maintained by the keeper so as to not overfeed, so the snake maintains a healthy weight and does not become obese. Just because some of my snakes would eat every 3-4 days if I let them, doesn't mean they should.
Based on my previous experience with an adult BP that was comparable in size, weight, and age (54", 2500g, 5 y/o) as the OP's, and the feeding issues that I had to work out by trial and error, I would suggest feeding one rat (100g) every 10-14 days. While alot of Ball Pythons are more than capable of taking larger rats, and many do, still, there are some who will not eat anything much larger. The only reason that I can come up with as to why is that a Ball Pythons natural prey would be African Soft Furs, and it is my understanding that adult ASF's are only about 70-90 grams. So possibly, there is some instinct that that dictates what prey size they are attracted to.

I also don't understand why there is so much fuss in this thread about the litter substrate and humidity. As long as the relative humidity is maintained, whether it be through environmental conditions, or regulated through husbandry techniques. Newspaper and paper towels are not the best at holding humidity but many people use them successfully. At some point, someone was the first to try them.
Apparently, there is at least one breeder who is using the litter substrate successfully. Yes, I agree that there may be a higher chance for mold, but I tend to think that with frequent spot cleanings and routine substrate changes, this could be kept to a minimum, if not prevented entirely. That is why I asked the OP to post updates on how this particular substrate was working for them. Or, if possible, invite the breeder to join this forum and post a thread on their use and experience with this product. Whether or not I would ever use it depends on things such as availability, cost, quantity,etc... But it's nice to know that the option is there should I ever need, or want it...

[wwmjkd]

there is no real set formula, at least not in terms a scientifically 'proven' equation if that's what you're alluding to. it's an animal, not a piece of machinery that can only function under a particular set of circumstances. it would make just as little sense to tell dog owners that black labs can only be given two cups of dry food every morning across the board no matter what. you appear very quick to come down on the people freely offering you advice. good advice. as noted, there is no one correct way to keep ball pythons. rather there is a font of good information that has been arrived at based on experience and observations. some of the responses you've received in this post that have perhaps put you off can be attributed to your ostensible unyielding demeanor. it's fine to take advice with a grain of salt, but you seem to be very demanding. try to be a little more amenable to what you've been told, especially by the moderators, even if others come off as antagonistic or pedantic.

as for the feeders, again it is variable. many people feed various sizes and with changing frequency depending on the circumstances and on what they have determined works the best for their set-ups and goals. certainly power feeding is to be avoided, but there is no 'formula' because no two snakes are exactly alike. the formula also changes throughout the life cycle. young hatchlings can be fed 'appropriately sized' meals every 5-7 days. fully grown adults may not need to eat more than twice a month. as a general rule, 10-15% of the body mass, avoiding anything that is larger than your snake at its midsection, is good advice. the frequency is largely left up to you. you can feed almost any ball that is willing every 7 days without worrying. some snakes also go on protracted hunger strikes for months but remain healthy. if your personal goals are not breeding and simply to own a healthy snake, you could feed once every 10-14 days given how old your pastel is. either way it's up to you.