Do you believe in Ghosts?

[j_h_smith]

Since 1994, I've never put anyone on an ignore list, but this guy is definitely my leading candidate for being the first. No threat, just an observation.

[wilomn]

pal, I'm not much for PMs about ongoing threads so, should you choose to send me anymore, I will treat them as I did the last you sent.

Deleted without being read.

If you've got something to say worth saying, say it. Don't hide.

[Freakie_frog]

Lets try and keep it on topic..

Many thanks.

[Egapal]

pal, I'm not much for PMs about ongoing threads so, should you choose to send me anymore, I will treat them as I did the last you sent.

Deleted without being read.

If you've got something to say worth saying, say it. Don't hide.

Now you are being completely rediculious. I am trying to respect this forum thread. I can see that there is no further value in giving my opinion. I am don't appreciate your bashing me unanswered and for that I will go against my previous statements to go on record as you have requested with my reply to you

I don't consider myself to be a bummer, negative, or a downer. I don't care if people want to hear me spout off. This is a forum and in a forum people get to voice opinions with some restrictions. I believe I am acting within the bounds of those restrictions. I never claimed to be the be all end all of anything. I am not a schmuck. I don't even have a wall up. I am willing to discuss anything. Unlike you I don't make personal attacks. I merely discuss the issues. I do require that while discussing the issue we use terms we all agree on and can back up our facts and support our beliefs. If you can't do any of that we will tend to have an issue. If you can't we will generally get along. I think the exercise of proper skepticism is a great way to live life buy if you don't like it, that's your right. I admit mystery exists I just don't care to let things remain a mystery. I like to find out why. I am sorry you are wrong, everything does have a cause, it may not have a purpose (I never claimed everything did) but a cause everything does have. So I certainly don't accept the statement that it doesn't as a truth.

[j_h_smith]

Look back on this discussion. I have said in many of my messages, that you can have your beliefs. However, you have tried in every message to assert your beliefs as the only solution to this discussion. You will learn in time, that you don't have all of the answers. You can claim to have knowledge, but would you listen to me. MY FAMILY HAS HAD PERSONNAL INTERACTION with something you don't know about. You were not there. As a matter of fact, you weren't born yet. So STOP telling me the my family suffered from this or that. Stop telling me that we didn't see what we saw. Stop telling me that you know anymore about this than the man on the moon. YOU DON"T KNOW. Get it?

If you're such a hot shot, tell me what day and month my sister moved in, then moved out? If you can't at least tell me this, then you have NO IDEA what my family experienced. You have an opinion, BUT THATS ALL YOU HAVE, IS AN OPINION. Stop trying to tell me anything. I really don't value you opinion at this point. Leave this conversation to folks that are willing to discuss their past experiences. Don't tell us all that we're wrong and you are the only one on this forum that has an answer.

To the mods and admins, this crackpot is exactly why you can't keep the good folks posting here. It is entirely the sole reason I haven't been here for months.

Ban me, kick me off, I don't care, but somebody has got to stand up for the average user here. Telling us to keep it on topic isn't cutting it anymore.

Discussed Again!
Jim Smith

[cmack91]

Lets try and keep it on topic..

Many thanks.

sorry 'bout that, this thread got a little intense...lol

[Mrs Brisby]

I do not believe in ghosts.

Here's why.

There is no objectively verifiable evidence for their existence. None.

The only "evidence" anyone has ever been able to put are horrible quality blurry video or photographic recordings, or claims from eyewitnesses.

As to the first, is it so easily faked, so this cannot be considered.
As to the second, there are numerous explanations why someone would make the claim. Anything from intentionally lying, to delusions, hallucinations, or general confusion. People claim to see things all that time which aren't real. I met a guy once who saw the cast of the Mortal Kombat video game in real life as part of his schizophrenic delusions.

If you want to prove the existence of ghosts, you need some kind of independently verifiable experiment.

[j_h_smith]

I can't prove anything, but I know what has occurred in my family life. But there was a time that many things were not known to exist. Giant squid for one example. They were known to exist for centuries but no one ever had physical evidence. With technology, they have verified their existance. Could we just be in the 18th century of understanding ghosts? At one time we thought the moon was made of green cheese, now we know it isn't. Just because we don't understand things, should not discount them as a possible fact.

Spirits/ghosts have been seen for thousands of years. They have been discussed long before we knew the Earth was round and the Universe didn't revolve around our planet.

Sure, for the outsider, I can't expect you to understand what my family had seen/experienced. However, I can tell you that with every fiber of my body, I know what I've experienced. You either accept my experience or you don't.

[Maddumpling]

You are using that statement out of context to support a claim you have. The law of thermo dynamics does not postulate ghosts. When you shut of your TV is there a TV ghost? When your car stalls, is there a car ghost? Do flies have ghosts, what about fish or ants? I suspect that the reason you believe in Ghosts has very little to do with energy and a lot to do with your elevation of the mind of humans to supernatural status. Unless you can prove something about the mind that you haven't already I don't see any reason to even conjecture that the energy you have when you are alive would continue on as a ghost. The act of dying is the act of the cells dying, they stop producing energy, and the energy dissipating. The bulk of the "energy" of a human body is the flesh which could be eaten by another animal to sustain its life. The small amount of electrical charge dissipates with out the biological functions to support it. Do this experiment. Go out and buy a new battery. Leave it in a drawer in your house for 10 years. After the long wait put the battery in something and see how well it works. Where did all the energy go? Should we assume there is a battery ghost haunting your drawer?

You are really taking this too seriously. And the car and tv thing is not the same thing as what I just said. I'm not saying that when we die we will become ghosts or such. I'm just saying its a possibility, meaning I could be right or I could be wrong. Stop trying to make this a debate and just let everyone share their own belief. And I never said I believe in ghosts. If I see it then I'll believe it, but there is no scientific fact that there aren't any ghosts. I'm in between.

[Mrs Brisby]

.... but there is no scientific fact that there aren't any ghosts.

There are also no scientific "facts" that claim there aren't any leprechauns, faeries, pegasus, pixies, dragons, manticores, sphinxes, flying spaghetti monsters, teapots orbiting mars, invisible pink unicorns, the loch ness monster, bigfoot, yeti's, chupacabra, the lost continent of atlantis, Zeus, Thor, Loki, Odin, Ra, Shiva, Vishnu, Horus, Anu, Innana, Aphrodite, Ilu, Yahweh, Allah, or any other deity, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny.

You see, science doesn't deal with things which you cannot observe or cannot test. And no, your own personal experience is not good enough to meet the burden of proof. There are just as many people out there who claim to have experience all the above things I mentioned, do their personal experiences count? Does the personal experience of a man who witnesses tiny green aliens in miniature rocket ships which fly around the room making fun of him provide significant burden of proof for their existence?

Oh and as far as the numbers thing, that's a logical fallacy. The number of people who believe a thing does not make it true or untrue. Things stand on their own merits. The majority of people used to believe lightning and thunder came from the gods. They used to believe the Earth was flat. They used to believe that rotting meat transformed into flies. They used to believe that bleeding people was healthy. They used to believe all kinds of ridiculous things that you yourself would openly mock, so conciser that the next time you commit an appeal to popularity.