If it's too good to be true....

[buddha1200]

I don't understand your point. I'm not going to de-value my animals because I'm worried about the little guy. If the "little guy" wants what I have to sell, he'll find a way. But I'm not lowering my price to help some mythical "little guy". My work, my animals are worth more than that.

I was a "little guy" once before, but I didn't whine and complain about the prices. I just planned ahead.

This generation is too wrapped up in instant gratification. Sometimes you have to work a little bit and wait a little bit to get what you want.

My point is you dont have to devalue your animals they are your animals put as much value on them as you want.
but your value of them and my value of them are totally different.
for example i dont like black pastels and i dont care how much you put a value on them i wont buy it.
now as for them "mythical" little guy,hell i still consider myself the little guy and i own three businesses and am about to open my forth(a tattoo shop),i dont devalue the hard working little guys because i believe with out the mythical little guy there would not be any of alot of industries(bp's,tattoos,walmart,pet supplies etc).
how much would your spectacular pastel top show quality morph be worth if no one bought it(money wise its worthless)to you as a pet it might be priceless but thats to you.
i have always tried to remain humble and am very greatful for all the blessings i have worked hard to get,and i try to treat each an every customer with respect and just because i made it i would never place myself above the little guy,the little guy buying the $25 tattoo of his childs name means just as much to me as the guy paying me by the hour to get his entire back done.
guess my view on how to treat my customers is not standard business practice.
i dont see any problem with give people a break sometimes,people work hard for their money and would like to enjoy certain things in life(as i do)and i feel better about reducing my prices alittle bit to accomadate a wider range of people than haveing people walk away because i am not flexable.
i love competition, if the tattoo shop a few blocks away starts doing 20 dollar names and there customer are happy with the quality do you think i am not going to try to beat him at his own game(yes i will)business is business.
Good quality for a good price will give you a good reputation everytime.
Of course you still have to make a profit so you can only go but so low.but if you can go lower an still make a profit why not.
If i buy a pair of hets proven breeders(for albino)for 150 dollars and they produces 6 eggs(2 albinos maybe 4 hets)and i sell the 4 hets for 50=200 and then sell the albinos for 150 each=300 thats 350 i made from 150(of course minus food say for exaample sake minus 100,)thats 250,i just doubled my money and still was able to sell below market value. can some one explain why that would be wrong(mind you this is just and example i know the odds might not happen that way)

[JLC]

I just dont get how you can say the petco animals are more quality animals then what a breeder of captive bred animals provides im not going to get into a pissing match with you over it because you come back every time with me qouting experience.

You can't get it because no one said it. He used the petco example to demonstrate the strength of a market and the value of a hands-on purchase...then when you twisted those words around to change the argument, he answered your new argument to say that you CAN SOMETIMES find genuine quality animals worth spending $80. No one said all petco ball pythons are more valuable than captive bred from good breeders...but that seems to be the point you want to argue.

... and when I started looking for morphs, I found very little in NJ in the way of breeders. ...

In that case, it sounds to me like you've got an excellent opportunity to build a business in a market with a void. I wouldn't see that as a down-side at all.

....,and i try to treat each an every customer with respect and just because i made it i would never place myself above the little guy,the little guy buying the $25 tattoo of his childs name means just as much to me as the guy paying me by the hour to get his entire back done.
guess my view on how to treat my customers is not standard business practice.

Where did anyone here indicate that they don't value EVERY customer (those that can spend small dollars as well as those that can spend bigger). Why do you think anyone here doesn't treat their customers with respect and gratitude?

Based on your earlier post, you should be giving that full back tat away for $25 to the guy who could only afford the name. Are you being disrespectful or ungracious because you don't do his full back for $25?

No one ever said there was anything wrong with giving breaks to people either...but such things are done on a case-by-case basis. You don't build a successful business by giving your product away to everyone who wants it but can't afford it.

[buddha1200]

Okay, I have to chime in and back up Buddha. I'm in Jersey too, and when I started looking for morphs, I found very little in NJ in the way of breeders. I did my research and looked on fauna and kingsnake and here, basically just trying to find someone local where I can go and touch and see the animals, but there really, truly was nothing like there is in other states (god, I wish I lived in CA, FL or TX!!). I did EVENTUALLY find a random person here and there who happened to be selling something and I ran across a breeder who's somewhat local. But even that was difficult and complicated and they don't always have what I'm looking for.

But that ties in directly to what Mike said - if someone were local, I'd happily pay a little over market to avoid shipping nervousness and to actually go see the animals. Through bp.net, I've managed to network with a lot of NJ people, which is fantastic, so hopefully we can get something started here, lol!

i think mike thinks because were he lives the market is good that it is like that every were,but it is not,i too have connected with a few folks from nj that feels the same as i do the bp market around us is just almost none existent,if it wasnt for shows or online vendors i wouldnt even be on this forum.
I already stated i would rather deal locally and i would pay a little more but it would have to be what i wanted,most breeders i ran into had spiders,normals,pastels,and black pastels and i did run into a breeder that had one fire but it was a male and i really am looking for a nice female.
so in our area i doubt very seriously that there is a big market for 1200 dollar bps.
I am just glad this is a hobby for me and not a way of life because if it was in this area that would be a rough road to travel.

[buddha1200]

jlc
i also stated that you still have to make a profit(if you are going to quote me quote the whole thing)but if you can go lower and still make a profit why not.
I can give away tattoos and still make a living,just did a portrait for a fellow who lost his child to an accident i didnt know him i just heard him talking about it(costme three hours,4 needles a ounce of ink. Cost him nothing the gratitude when he looked at it for the first time in the mirror was payment enough,so dont pretend to know me by qouting parts of what i said.
In the long run business is business of course,no i couldnt give away all my tattoos for free,but i damn sure and do them with just as much quality and meaning for Under market value(dictated by some one elses version of market value) i am not an will not charge what another tattoo artist or shop says i should so they dont have to lower their prices.If they cant deal with the competition than they dont need to be in a competative business.

[JLC]

jlc
i also stated that you still have to make a profit(if you are going to quote me quote the whole thing)but if you can go lower and still make a profit why not.
I can give away tattoos and still make a living,just did a portrait for a fellow who lost his child to an accident i didnt know him i just heard him talking about it(costme three hours,4 needles a ounce of ink. Cost him nothing the gratitude when he looked at it for the first time in the mirror was payment enough,so dont pretend to know me by qouting parts of what i said.
In the long run business is business of course,no i couldnt give away all my tattoos for free,but i damn sure and do them with just as much quality and meaning for Under market value(dictated by some one elses version of market value) i am not an will not charge what another tattoo artist or shop says i should so they dont have to lower their prices.If they cant deal with the competition than they dont need to be in a competative business.

And that's all well and good. I know many people who have given away free snakes to those who lost snakes in tragedies...even expensive morphs are sometimes given away for free.

What gets to me about your arguments is not that you are generous or you feel a need to price your service lower than "market value"....it's that you imply that everyone else should do the same, and if they don't, then they are somehow bad people (not grateful and not respectful of their customers) if they place a higher value on their product than you do.

[Chris633]

Okay, I have to chime in and back up Buddha. I'm in Jersey too, and when I started looking for morphs, I found very little in NJ in the way of breeders. I did my research and looked on fauna and kingsnake and here, basically just trying to find someone local where I can go and touch and see the animals, but there really, truly was nothing like there is in other states (god, I wish I lived in CA, FL or TX!!). I did EVENTUALLY find a random person here and there who happened to be selling something and I ran across a breeder who's somewhat local. But even that was difficult and complicated and they don't always have what I'm looking for.

But that ties in directly to what Mike said - if someone were local, I'd happily pay a little over market to avoid shipping nervousness and to actually go see the animals. Through bp.net, I've managed to network with a lot of NJ people, which is fantastic, so hopefully we can get something started here, lol!

i think mike thinks because were he lives the market is good that it is like that every were,but it is not,i too have connected with a few folks from nj that feels the same as i do the bp market around us is just almost none existent,if it wasnt for shows or online vendors i wouldnt even be on this forum.
I already stated i would rather deal locally and i would pay a little more but it would have to be what i wanted,most breeders i ran into had spiders,normals,pastels,and black pastels and i did run into a breeder that had one fire but it was a male and i really am looking for a nice female.
so in our area i doubt very seriously that there is a big market for 1200 dollar bps.
I am just glad this is a hobby for me and not a way of life because if it was in this area that would be a rough road to travel.

Ok, I have to jump in here as a NJ BPer. I do believe that the NJ market is stronger than it appears. There are some really good BP breeders here who I think just keep a low or non-existent online profile. I've gotten all of my BPs from local breeders.

I've gotten 11 out of 14 of my snakes (i have 2 new BP's on hold ) from Tom Agosta/8 Legs Plus who is right in central NJ. Two of my snakes I got through Tom from this guy Steve who is in NNJ. I got one of my snakes from Frank Martin who I believe is also central NJ (I grabbed it at the White Plains show). I really can't say enough good things about Tom and the quality animals he produces (BP's, colubrids, spiders). He'll be at Hamburg on Saturday. Definitely grab one of his cards.

[JulieInNJ]

Ok, I have to jump in here as a NJ BPer. I do believe that the NJ market is stronger than it appears. There are some really good BP breeders here who I think just keep a low or non-existent online profile. I've gotten all of my BPs from local breeders.

I've gotten 11 out of 14 of my snakes (i have 2 new BP's on hold ) from Tom Agosta/8 Legs Plus who is right in central NJ. Two of my snakes I got through Tom from this guy Steve who is in NNJ. I got one of my snakes from Frank Martin who I believe is also central NJ (I grabbed it at the White Plains show). I really can't say enough good things about Tom and the quality animals he produces (BP's, colubrids, spiders). He'll be at Hamburg on Saturday. Definitely grab one of his cards.

Fantastic info!!! Thanks a million billion times!!!

[Mike Cavanaugh]

You guys and gals that are saying "mike doesn't know what he is talking about... the local BP market here is awefull... I can't find a local breeder with quality animals anywere close to me...." are missing the point completely.

The lack of breeders is the REASON why you should be able to move your animals very easily with the locals.

[RichsBallPythons]

Lets not forget about John Stranahan(JasBalls) in NJ, who has close to 700 ball pythons. Nj has A LOT of breeders there, just cause you dont see them for sale locally, dont mean their not there.

[JulieInNJ]

Lets not forget about John Stranahan(JasBalls) in NJ, who has close to 700 ball pythons. Nj has A LOT of breeders there, just cause you dont see them for sale locally, dont mean their not there.

I tried to contact him. He blew me off. But that brings up a good point. How DO you find them? I did all kinds of searches and came up empty.