If it's too good to be true....

[joebad976]

Well, this was my first year breeding and I did not have any problems selling my snakes. I did not sell them at market value because I was not ready website, shipping, etc. I am using the money I have accumulated to get situated with the marketing side of my animals for 2012.

I also did not sell albinos for $100. I went the wholesale route this year with local pet stores that I have worked with and sold them snakes at the wholesale prices that they were paying from distributors. Most BP Morphs are not marked up 100% at Pet stores so you can much more than $100 for an albino.

Some of the customers even contact me now regarding genetics, breeding, husbandry, etc. So I am slowly but surely getting my name out there just not on the internet just yet.

If all else fails there are plenty of people out there willing to buy entire clutches. You have to give it a try before you sell for 1/3 the going price.

Even though it is a hobby at this time you should still sit down and try to come up with a sound business plan. Unfortunately, the thought process in this hobby extends past which male am I pairing with this female.

[JLC]

I understand personal connection pet wise whatever.

I wasn't talking about some emotional connection to a pet. I was talking about business value. Yes, you have your opinion on the matter....but where you are going wrong is not your opinion...it's that you seem to insist on stating your opinion as some hard-and-fast rule that must apply to everyone who reads it.

Forgive me if im wrong but this whole thread was about worth as in value $$$$$ and quality.

Actually, the thread was originally about how should a "new breeder" price their animals in order to be able to make sales.

But again this thread was about market value and the balls at those stores are way below market value quality

Mike's point was merely that that fact that people are WILLING to spend $80 on a normal, unsexed, imported ball python from a pet store should be an indication that the market for local sales is strong.

After you attacked the premise with the left-field argument that all petstore purchases are ripoffs, some of us tried to demonstrate to you that not ALL such purchases are "ripoffs".

What you choose to take away from the discussion is entirely up to you. I get the feeling you rarely ever walk away from a discussion one word richer than the ones you yourself contributed.

[snake lab]

First of all i never attacked. Second of all if a store is selling a product for alot more money then market value and that product is lesser quality then how can you say the people buying that product is not getting ripped off? Lol seriouslly. So in your argument it makes sence to buy a less quality animal for a higher price from petco? I understand the point mike made about the local pet store market being strong at petco and petsmart but thats also because they moved in and put the smaller mom & pop stores out so yes they sell their low quality animals to the unsuspecting customer. Now back to the original basis of this thread before it turns into another snake lab witch hunt by the usual locals, i dont see a problem with a newbie breeder or any breeder for that fact to sell some animals at a lower price. Maybe they need quick cash for projects, maybe they want or need the rack space, whatever the reason i dont think there is one big breeder that can crash any market at this stage of the game. The ball python industry alone is very strong and keeps getting stronger. My favorite time of the year is when its time to sell babies. I have a good base of customers that i deal with and people are generally easy to deal with. Its a great industry. I dont think anyone on this forum should tell someone what to price their animals for. Who cares if competition gets upset. Thats what happens in competitive markets.

[Jessica Loesch]

What Mike is referring to is the concept of "impulse buying".

People are prone to impulse buy. It's in our genetics. If it is right in front of us, we don't have to wait, and it looks good, often we will spend the money and get it for instant gratification.

LOTS of people do this. Even those that are well informed. You ask how many people from this forum have paid to get a snake from a pet store. Even if it was just to "save" it. I'm sure there would be a decent list.

[snake lab]

Believe me i understand impulse buying way too much. They put a bass pro down the street and i swear ive already put some of the kids that work there through college already. Yea i get the point and agree with it. I guess i am just so against the quality of the animals they have and how they keep them. Everytime i go in a petco to buy dogfood i always walk by the snakes and see poor examples of what they are selling. And because of the level of care and money i put into my collection there is no way i could justify spending the kind of money they charge. Now you guys may have better stores i dont know but every single one in the area here is horrible

[Jessica Loesch]

Thanks Snake Lab. LOL @ bass pro story.

And some Petcos are actually a little better, mine is. Most aren't. Agree to that.

[rabernet]

everyone doesnt have the ability to spend over market value for certain animals,so as a business person should i say screw the little guy because i feel as though becuase they dont have alot of money they dont desrve quality .

I don't understand your point. I'm not going to de-value my animals because I'm worried about the little guy. If the "little guy" wants what I have to sell, he'll find a way. But I'm not lowering my price to help some mythical "little guy". My work, my animals are worth more than that.

I was a "little guy" once before, but I didn't whine and complain about the prices. I just planned ahead.

This generation is too wrapped up in instant gratification. Sometimes you have to work a little bit and wait a little bit to get what you want.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

no not at all when i was looking to get into bps,i search locally for a long time included craigslist southjersey(which hardly ever has any bp ads)i ran into few local breeders(found them on fauna)but the selection was abit slim(although one local guy had some great black pastels)but i dont like black pastels.
i would love to deal locally(closest show to me is 2 hours each way)but the market just isnt there.believe me i have looked for a good local breeder,hell the money i dont spend on gas and shipping,and tolls,i could use to by more bps.

Ok, so again, let me get this right. Now you are declaring that there is no local market to buy your hatchlings because 1.) your local fish store owner said he didn't have much luck selling morph ball pythons. and 2.) When you were in the market to buy a new morph yourself you had a hard time finding any quality animals in your area. Correct?

Again yes and yes. You are not going to find anything intresting out of a petco import. There are guys in africa that hand pick the animals to be exported to the us. They grade them then they ship them. Then once hitting the states the importer then goes through them. If there was anything substantial then it would have been picked out.

Ah, so the expert in africa and the export importer are the ones that are able to sort through thousands of normals, removing every possible snake worthy of a dinker project with any of my existing animals. Man, those guys must good.

I run craigslist ads every year when i want to sell my normals that were peoduced in my breedings and i sell them for 25 bucks across the boards males or females.

So let me get this right... I am getting screwed and I don't know the market because I am willing to pay more then kingsnake prices locally... But your expert knowledge in the market tells you that your NOT getting screwed when selling your normals locally for $25 each on craigslist? You do realize that MANY of us get considerably more then that for normals on craigslist right? I made 42 normals this year. I sold all of them locally for $35 for males and $45 for females. As of today I have 2 left. Oh wait, let me guess... so now you think I am ripping people off right?

Heres another example, i sell my regular stuff that come out of clutches like the spiders and pastels at a lower then going market price so i can free up rack space and that way i dont have to feed animals longer so i can wait for a little more money.

Again, your the expert and I don't have a clue... You are selling your animals for less then "market". I am selling mine for on average 15 - 25% above kingsnake prices. Acording to you, that is because I either 1.) dont know the market or 2.) am ripping people off.

thing you have to and everyone else has to realize is that just cause you see a price tag, it doesnt mean the animals are selling for that. The market is based on what the animals sell for not what the asking prices are. So yes mike i do have a clue.

Thing you have to realize ESPECIALLY in the local market is when I have a snake for sale for $200, and you offer me $150 declaring that is the fair price because it can be purchased on kingsnake for $125, I can say "NO"... And there is nothing you can do about it.

Sure you can go elsewhere and pay the $125 kingsnake price and $50 shipping and get your animal in a couple weeks when the weather clears... That is fine with me.

Do you know why I can say No? I can say no because I have quality animals... I can say no because every single year I sell everything I make for what I want to sell it for. In fact, I have not had a single hatchling make it to the Christmas season yet. Hmmm... Maybe my prices are too low?!

Mike's point was merely that that fact that people are WILLING to spend $80 on a normal, unsexed, imported ball python from a pet store should be an indication that the market for local sales is strong.

Thank you. Nice to see that someone understands what I am saying...

[snake lab]

Yes mike there are guys that sort through the animals in africa and yes they are good at what they do. They arent bush wackers with no clue. They know the animals better then you or i. And unless you werent paying attention i blow certain animals out so i dont have to sit on them and feed them any longer then i have to. Its all about turn around. When breeding and producing large quantities of animals there are certain animals i have to blow out quick unless i have a show coming up then i will put them up on the tables and whatever doesnt sell i will try and wholesale em to other vendors. I totally get what your saying about local markets. I just dont get how you can say the petco animals are more quality animals then what a breeder of captive bred animals provides im not going to get into a pissing match with you over it because you come back every time with me qouting experience.

[JulieInNJ]

Okay, I have to chime in and back up Buddha. I'm in Jersey too, and when I started looking for morphs, I found very little in NJ in the way of breeders. I did my research and looked on fauna and kingsnake and here, basically just trying to find someone local where I can go and touch and see the animals, but there really, truly was nothing like there is in other states (god, I wish I lived in CA, FL or TX!!). I did EVENTUALLY find a random person here and there who happened to be selling something and I ran across a breeder who's somewhat local. But even that was difficult and complicated and they don't always have what I'm looking for.

But that ties in directly to what Mike said - if someone were local, I'd happily pay a little over market to avoid shipping nervousness and to actually go see the animals. Through bp.net, I've managed to network with a lot of NJ people, which is fantastic, so hopefully we can get something started here, lol!