If it's too good to be true....

[Mike Cavanaugh]

if its a fact,then why dont any petstore around sell bps except one and they will only sell normals,because and i qoute"our average customer doesnt know what a morph is"the owner(who i deal with in fish)even went with me to hamburg(bought 8 normals to sell at his shop)he still has all except one and is selling them for 25,maybe in norfh jersey the market is better,but in south jersey the market sucks

Correct me if I am wrong... you are basing your assumption that nobody wants ball python morphs in your area because your local fish store shop owner has not had success selling them in the past?

Post a craigslist post in community section advertising a morph at kingsnake plus 25% pricing. Post good pictures, with a good description. Give it some time. If it is a decent example of the morph you will get plenty of inquirys.

[ShockBunny]

I wouldn't necessarily avoid a low priced snake, if the people I'm buying from seem to have it together. Having a good, professional website set up really goes a long way with me. I actually bought my bumblebee male from someone I found on a craigslist. They didn't have prices listed, but when I emailed them to check, they said $250 for the male (which was actually a discount from their original price). I wouldn't have bothered (and certainly wouldn't have driven 3 hours) if they hadn't had a website. I'm not saying that I wouldn't buy from someone without a website, it just makes me a lot more comfortable for some reason. But if I saw a $100 albino, I'd probably avoid it unless I knew them personally. XD

I'm glad I ended up driving up to get him. Aside from cutting me a good deal, they let me have my pick of the clucth (aside from one really nice male they had marked higher). I also got a 100% het albino female for $40 from them as well. The lady was really nice, showed me all of her breeders and answered all of my questions. I would buy again from them in a heartbeat. They're in the same situation as you, just started breeding recently.

Long story short, I agree with advertising locally. Even if you don't list rock-bottom prices on craigslist, I think people will be much more willing to take a chance on a new breeder that they can actually meet in person and see the snake and facility before purchasing.

[buddha1200]

Correct me if I am wrong... you are basing your assumption that nobody wants ball python morphs in your area because your local fish store shop owner has not had success selling them in the past?

Post a craigslist post in community section advertising a morph at kingsnake plus 25% pricing. Post good pictures, with a good description. Give it some time. If it is a decent example of the morph you will get plenty of inquirys.

no not at all when i was looking to get into bps,i search locally for a long time included craigslist southjersey(which hardly ever has any bp ads)i ran into few local breeders(found them on fauna)but the selection was abit slim(although one local guy had some great black pastels)but i dont like black pastels.
i would love to deal locally(closest show to me is 2 hours each way)but the market just isnt there.believe me i have looked for a good local breeder,hell the money i dont spend on gas and shipping,and tolls,i could use to by more bps.

[snake lab]

[QUOTE=Mike Cavanaugh;1672434]LOL, how did I know this was coming... another explanation of how experienced you are.... While at the same time proving once again that you really don't have a clue.

So let me get this right... BECAUSE some petco snakes are imported, that means that if I find one that sparks my interest enough to pay the high petco prices, I am getting screwed? Oh yeah, and it means that I don't know the market too? Does this same logic apply when I decide to pay $300 for a female pastel from a local breeder on craigslist because she looks special or perfect to me? Am I getting screwed and don't know the market again because I am not paying the $150 kingsnake price?[/QUOTE


Again yes and yes. You are not going to find anything intresting out of a petco import. There are guys in africa that hand pick the animals to be exported to the us. They grade them then they ship them. Then once hitting the states the importer then goes through them. If there was anything substantial then it would have been picked out therefore the animals that finally find themselves in the death cages of local big box stores are nothing more then 10 dollar normals so based on the quality your getting there you most certainlly are getting screwed if your paying those prices at the store. I run craigslist ads every year when i want to sell my normals that were peoduced in my breedings and i sell them for 25 bucks across the boards males or females. I know i can get that from craigslist. I cant get that on kingsnake cause there are peiple selling them for 18 bucks or lower and ya still got to factor shipping in. Therefore i price them aggresively on craigslist to blow em out. Heres another example, i sell my regular stuff that come out of clutches like the spiders and pastels at a lower then going market price so i can free up rack space and that way i dont have to feed animals longer so i can wait for a little more money. Am i crushing the market? No way. Are people sending me hate mail? No way. Am i selling em fast? Yes i am, are my customers happy? You bet they are. My quality is just as good as anyone elses but some animals just arent worth it to sit and hold on to them longer then i want to. The thing you have to and everyone else has to realize is that just cause you see a price tag, it doesnt mean the animals are selling for that. The market is based on what the animals sell for not what the asking prices are. So yes mike i do have a clue.

[buddha1200]

well people ,i have to sign off now.
(i am a guest artist at a local shop and have an 11 oclock appointment)
great debate hope it stays friendly and interesting lots of points of views,just shows how different we are yet we all love our bp's.
let me start this tattoo talk to you guys in the am.

[JLC]

Again yes and yes. You are not going to find anything intresting out of a petco import. .... So yes mike i do have a clue.

Ummmm....here's where you're messed up. You seem to think (based on your own words) that it's up to YOU how Mike (or anyone else) should value their animals. You don't "have a clue" how Mike chooses to value his animals or what he might look for and find value in even a typical petco type store. Just because YOU don't see value in those animals doesn't mean they don't have value.

Personally, I've seen a few examples over the years of very very nice "normal" ball pythons at petco and petsmart and even at petland (ick)....that had I been able to at the time, I would have gladly paid their retail price for. (Well, honestly I wouldn't buy ANYthing from petland, but that's an entirely different topic.)

[crepers86]

Wow this has really helped me understand the ball python market. But I do have a concern, and it might be the reason why ASPCA and humane societies dont do reptile adoptions, kinda like houston spca uses a herp center to take in reptiles. My question is this.

A friend and I have stated a reptile rescue group, and we have been debating for about a month month now what a rehoming fee should be. At first we are talking $35 for a female spider, strick on not selling for breeding, how ever we understand this is not stoppable,and the chance of a breeder seeing it that low or some one that tthinks they can flip it and make money. Obviously we are unable to spay or nuetur the animals. We are putting together an application and interview program. for adoptees. We have brainstormed even providing propper enclosuers and other equipment needed as well as 4 feedings worth of food and upping the fee to maybe $85

[wolfy-hound]

Also, there's been cases right here on BP.net of someone going into a petco/petsmart/whatever chain store and coming out with a morph(low grade, but a morph). It happens on occasion. And some of the normals they get in are spectacular normals, I've seen some really nice ones. Does that mean it's a rip off?

And to begin with, saying that it's worth it for a person to be able to walk out with their snake, vs having it shipped, doesn't at all mean the QUALITY is better than online. Plenty of people even on here have popped up saying "I just got XX at my local store..." meaning they almost definitely overpaid if you compare to expo prices. But they're all happy because they SAW the snake, SAW the price and were happy to pay it. These are folks that have been to expos and know about online sales and still were happy to buy their animal locally.

Marking a price up from kingsnake's average to sell it locally is often still a bargain because it's safer to buy a "in hand" snake, vs trusting a seller online to ship it to you... and you save the shipping cost which now can run you $70+.

Selling normals (esp males) locally or to petstores as wholesale is almost the only way to move them, because they're so low priced to begin with. But that doesn't mean that you should dump all the prices to $5 each and assume there's no market for them.

[wolfy-hound]

Wow this has really helped me understand the ball python market. But I do have a concern, and it might be the reason why ASPCA and humane societies dont do reptile adoptions, kinda like houston spca uses a herp center to take in reptiles. My question is this.

A friend and I have stated a reptile rescue group, and we have been debating for about a month month now what a rehoming fee should be. At first we are talking $35 for a female spider, strick on not selling for breeding, how ever we understand this is not stoppable,and the chance of a breeder seeing it that low or some one that tthinks they can flip it and make money. Obviously we are unable to spay or nuetur the animals. We are putting together an application and interview program. for adoptees. We have brainstormed even providing propper enclosuers and other equipment needed as well as 4 feedings worth of food and upping the fee to maybe $85

It's going to be nearly impossible to enforce a "no breeding" rule. And honestly, why would you? If it's a healthy animal, and they have a market for the babies, why would you insist it remain only a pet? I've never quite understood it. I mean, I understand if it's a mutt dog of unknown origin(unknown genetics) and no real value to any pups produced, etc. But it's a python, and if it's a spider, it'll look like a spider and be a spider. There's not a ton of unknowns to a BP.

I would definitely think about providing a proper set up with each reptile you "adopt out". Put together what a person needs, add up the $$ amount you spend on it and add that to the adoption fee, or outright sell the set-up and include the animal as a "free adoption". You'll be certain they start out with the right set-up, they'll value the animal if they've spent a little money on it and the reputation of your rescue as someone who makes CERTAIN the animals are taken care of even after you adopt them will be worth it.

[snake lab]

Ummmm....here's where you're messed up. You seem to think (based on your own words) that it's up to YOU how Mike (or anyone else) should value their animals. You don't "have a clue" how Mike chooses to value his animals or what he might look for and find value in even a typical petco type store. Just because YOU don't see value in those animals doesn't mean they don't have value.

Personally, I've seen a few examples over the years of very very nice "normal" ball pythons at petco and petsmart and even at petland (ick)....that had I been able to at the time, I would have gladly paid their retail price for. (Well, honestly I wouldn't buy ANYthing from petland, but that's an entirely different topic.)

I understand personal connection pet wise whatever. Forgive me if im wrong but this whole thread was about worth as in value $$$$$ and quality. Dollar for dollar if you are saying that those imported babies at petco are worth the 80 bucks people are spending. So to clear it up are we talking worth as in money or worth in some other way. All im saying is value wise your getting ripped off at those prices. Would you buy a pure bred dog from a pet store where you know they come from puppy mills or would you buy from a reputable breeder? Reptiles are no different. And this is why ive said in other threads i dont think pet stores should sell either. Thats just my oppinion. But again this thread was about market value and the balls at those stores are way below market value quality