Nearing the end of guaranteed genetics. What will it mean to you?

[Chris633]

Hmm.. I think that 4 gene animals are still not too hard to figure out (e.g. a pewter spinner). I think that maybe 5 genes is where it starts to get hard.


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[Mike Cavanaugh]

Hmm.. I think that 4 gene animals are still not too hard to figure out (e.g. a pewter spinner). I think that maybe 5 genes is where it starts to get hard.

Excellent example. This one should be easy right? Please post a picture of a pewter spinner. then post a picture of a pewter pinstripe. then post a picture of a cinnamon spinner. Then show the distinct differences that tells you 100% for sure, without any doubt at all what is what.

Warning, I am setting you up for failure.. and that is my point.

[Chris633]

Ok, in the words of Barney Stinson, "challenge accepted." Ok, I went onto World of Ball Pythons. For the life of me I couldn't find a pewter spinner, but these are close enough. I think they are not too hard to identify the ingredients. Now if we threw a 6th gene into the last one, I think I'd be lost.

First is the Black Pewter Blast (3 genes)
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...-pewter-blast/

Next is the Black Pastel Kingspin (4 genes)
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...stel-kingspin/

Finally is the Pewter Spinner Lesser (5 genes)
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/quint/

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Lol... Didn't expect you to actually pull up pictures.

But since you did, no that isn't good enough. The pictures you provided did nothing to show the clear unmistakeable differences between the combos mentioned.

If I was buying your hatchling snake (a pewter spinner) how exactly
Would you be able to guarantee me that it isn't a cinnamon spinner? Or a pewter pinstripe?

[Jonas@Balls2TheWall]

This hobby is full of surprises! Thats why I love it! Hard to predict the direction it will take because its hard to predict what will come out next.

[snake lab]

Lol... Didn't expect you to actually pull up pictures.

But since you did, no that isn't good enough. The pictures you provided did nothing to show the clear unmistakeable differences between the combos mentioned.

If I was buying your hatchling snake (a pewter spinner) how exactly
Would you be able to guarantee me that it isn't a cinnamon spinner? Or a pewter pinstripe?

Ok now my brain is hurting

[Chris633]

Hmmm.. I think I stand by that 4 is probably the limit for reliable gene identification. I think it boils down to understanding the individual ingredients and basic combinations. The spinner combo is very distinguishable from either the spider or pinstripe alone. I think the picture of the Quint really highlights the spinner patterning. Now considering the color morphs, either we will end up with a yellow (pastel), coffee-like (black pastel) or a more blended color scheme (pewter). Now my theory here could completely fall apart if we picked a different set of morphs.. lol.. Hmm.. Now that I think about it, I think you can only have 2 pattern and 2 color morphs for reliable identification. If you threw enchi or spotnose into the spinner I think I'd be lost.

[potogold71]

I have not read every post on this yet, so someone may have brought this up. This may open up niche markets for people that like single morphs and want to produce their own combos. If you have a pair of 5+ gene snakes can you really take credit for what comes out? but if you keep the genes as pure as possible and strive for the best looking base morphs I feel you will fare better in the end. An example is the Abbott okeetee corn snake, a base morph that has been refined and is still "normal". I have just got back into balls after about 20 years so I'm not sure what direction I want to go with them. I do know that whatever I produce I would like it to stand out above the rest. This gives me some food for thought, I may just keep it simple and go for quality over quantity when it comes to genes.

[Lolo76]

Personally, being relatively new to the bp world, I find it hard to differentiate between a lot of the multi gene morphs, but I know an albino when I see one . I think the new people coming into the bp world will always start with the easier visual morphs so I don't think those will ever go out of style.

I agree... not to mention, most "casual" keepers don't have thousands of dollars to drop on a multi-combo-super-duper morph! Those will likely be traded only among high-end breeders/keepers, while the base morphs & normals will remain as popular as ever.

But yeah, it's a bit mind-numbing to consider the multitude of possibilities. I love reading about them, and looking at the pictures of every cool new combo... but in reality I can't afford one, and don't have the patience to breed them (at least not yet). So I'll stick with the simple snakes for now.

[Raptor]

I don't see the market tanking. There will always be people who want single and double gene snakes. A high quality pastel with minimal browning out is going to be in higher demand than a pastel that could pass for a normal. The same goes for a clean BEL. It'll be more sought after than a BEL that has greying on it's head. On top of this, don't forget that people are quite happy to buy double and triple gene snakes in order to bring new genetics into their projects. Let's not forget how many "what the hell is that?" has happened by just crossing two snakes.

To add the icing on the cake, the BP community has been going on for I don't know how long and knew morphs are still being discovered. These can either be dinkers that are imported, or ones that randomly pop up as hets.

To answer the original question: yes, I imagine some of the 4+ morphs can be hard to see, especially if they have genes that cover patterns such as pied and leutistic. But you know what? That's the fun thing about breeding: you never know what you're going to get. I've owned Al, my main goat sire, for about 5 years and I've been using him for about four years now. It never ceases to amaze me on what colors he can produce.

Back to the point..Most of these 4+, especially the 5+ are only in a select number of hands. They're not going to be hitting the open market very soon, and the ones that do..Well..If I had the money to buy one of those, I certainly wouldn't be driving a gas guzzling SUV.