Fire Prevention

[Hypnotic Exotic]

I'm looking at the temperature guards. If you can get a phone line dropped in, then it's only about $300 and you don't have the monthly fee you have with the cell service one so not bad. I'm calling ADT tomorrow to discuss other options since the fire alarm wouldn't ever work right. I think they have temperature monitors too and I'd rather it be through them if I can get something that won't false alarm since it will contact the fire department directly.

[mechnut450]

<----- semi active firefighter. the sprinklers work best and the dry chems are your best back up fora non sprinler building.. ( don't count me as expert here either only been in fire house since 1996) The 1 draw back to sprinkler is the temps needed to activate them ( about 150 degrees if I remember my school back then) but only work if the system activated.and are also know to fail/ go off for no reason ( specailly if id a dry kept system and freeze if a place gets too cold in winter.) the dry chem portable exst( sorry brain not wanting to spell tonight) are great but require you or someone to be there to use them plus they can loose pressure after a time so needto be checked ( and most can't be recharged)
Now I agree with the gfi, the dual tstats, and the covering of the flexwatt, I also have have wooden racks and have had heat tape melt( burnnig the floor and the cage as it did so) the best trick I seen and like outside of the inspecting of parts was the designing of racks were the heat tape will sit inside a groove and not make much actual contact with the tubs.
I will aslo point out thata gfi can go bad too ( replaced 2 in the almost 20 years My mother had her trailer. )

[kitedemon]

I don't really know anything about sprinklers I know my office is 8x12 ish and has 3 heads in it. I don't think I would have been given more than code so I can only assume that is code. I have been in a large room when a sprinkler was set off accidentally (filmset) and all I can tell you is I was dry then soaked to the skin faster than I could get out of the room with the door ten feet away it is whatever the flow rate lots of water.

I don't think the casual keeper is likely going to invest in a sprinkler system. Fail safes and checking every connection and using wiring heavy enough to carry the max load (plus 20% more at least) is the realistic way for most. Personally I'd remove the old insulation from my place before I installed a sprinkler system.

I was talking to a friend the other night and mentioned the fire and he has 2x 2l pop bottles filled with water and sand (old school) behind every tub in his rack (it is the biggest rack I have ever seen but aside from that..) he thinks that if there is a massive problem the heat will melt the pop bottle (it is on the flexwatt to help with ambient temps apparently) and spill water tripping a breaker and hopefully putting out the fire. No idea if it would work but hey it can't hurt.

[Hypnotic Exotic]

I called ADT about the heat sensor and am getting one installed in the next few weeks (soonest I could get a tech out). I asked about the false alarms with the smoke detector and finally got a straight answer. They are VERY sensitive to dust and if a spider decides to spin a web on one overnight, that will wreak havoc too. REALLY!?!? When changing bedding (which I explained), dust is going to fly a bit. I don't remember whether the false alarms were the day after changing bedding or not but either way, not the best for that situation. Heat detectors aren't my favorite option but they at least protect my house if something happens.

Bottom line - prevention is key. Once you have a fire, unless you have a sprinkler system, the fire department isn't making it out there in time. I would like to know more about these pop bottles though. Sounds like it just might work. I figure with GFI outlets, once something starts to meltdown or short, power is going to get cut so if they would put out the fire quickly before it has time to spread, that just might work. One last thing, does anyone know how hot melamine can stand?

[PitOnTheProwl]

I was talking to a friend the other night and mentioned the fire and he has 2x 2l pop bottles filled with water and sand (old school) behind every tub in his rack (it is the biggest rack I have ever seen but aside from that..) he thinks that if there is a massive problem the heat will melt the pop bottle (it is on the flexwatt to help with ambient temps apparently) and spill water tripping a breaker and hopefully putting out the fire. No idea if it would work but hey it can't hurt.

That is a good idea, I might have to start saving some water bottles

[kitedemon]

I don't know if it would work but the idea is interesting. I have no idea if it would work and there is no real way to test it. It might help might not. Prevention is the key.

[Herpking]

Just a thought in a rack it would get the full flow of a sprinkler so a few lower holes in every tub might be enough to clear much of the water out. I know sprinklers toss a monster amount of water but a covered rack would stop a fair bit. It might be enough to keep them from completely filling up.

Exactly what I was thinking, Or maybe like a slanted thing above the rack so water slides away from tubs... But that may be counter active.

[Hypnotic Exotic]

We were discussing on another forum and something else came up. With the exception of wood racks (which I would recommend you don't use), most racks including melamine are somewhat fire resistant. The issue is if you have Flexwatt or heat cable overheat or short and it starts arcing, you don't want anything flammable near it. We all probably have something VERY flammable we keep in our snake rooms - bedding. I know I keep a large bag of aspen back there all the time. It doesn't take much to light shredded aspen, just a few sparks. Plus it's packaged in a paper sack. I'm going to start storing it in a metal trash can with the lid on.

[KLMuller]

I don't know if dumping water on an electrical arc with a melted two liter is a good idea. The principal is good but if it doesn't trip the breaker or the plug it may cause more arching in other areas increasing the problem. I'm pretty sure sprinkler systems have a electrical disconnect installed incase they are activated. Sorry to repeat this part but the AFCI (Arc fault circuit interrupt) type breakers are designed to trip with non normal arcing. (normal arc is like flipping a light switch or plugging something in)



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[kitedemon]

If you were to be concerned about fire retardant racks I think you have to steer clear of melamine it take a bit higher temp to burn than wood but not tons higher Pure melamine is quite high but backed melamine with particle board is slightly higher than the wood its self about 300-350ºC. PVCx are in the 550-570ºC range If you were to be looking at fire retardant racks metal or PVCx. The notion of substrate is a great one, I myself have not looked at the plastic container of it the same way since.

I actually don't know what water and sand would do with an electrical fire. I just know my friend does this and it is an interesting idea. GFIs AFCI or the rest of the similar breaker products are a relatively cheap and easy defence. I would look first to replacing the breakers with one of these types before I spend any money on anything else.