baby spider ball keeps shaking its head this normall?

[snake lab]

I didnt say if you breed a no wobbler you wont get wobblers. Do you guys read what i write or do you guys just see my name and start going?. What i said is the spider gene animals i work with do not wobble and i dont wobbler babies. I had 9 clutches last year of spider gene animals. Out of about 30 to 35 babies not one wobbler. So am i doing something write, am i proving all the skeptics wrong? Am i just plain lucky? Until any one of you can prove to me its genetic or not with scientific data all your arguments are without merit just mere speculation.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Do you guys read what i write or do you guys just see my name and start going?

Paranoid much

Until any one of you can prove to me its genetic or not with scientific data all your arguments are without merit just mere speculation.

So where are YOUR scientific data? Less me guess you have known therefore just speculation on your part which means end of the discussion here and we will agree to disagree/.............funny thing is that MANY spider breeders will disagree with you as well.

[snake lab]

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

[meowmeowkazoo]

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

But nobody is agreeing with you.

Do you really think you're the only person who has tried to breed out the wobble? From what I've seen you say you've been around for 10 something years. That sounds like a long time, but that's not so much when you're talking about generations of ball pythons.

There are many other breeders out there who value quality just as much as you do. If the wobble could be bred out of the spider gene, wouldn't it have been shared within the community by other breeders who have been around just as long as you have (or longer)?

Surely if you have been producing spiders without wobbles for some time, word would have gotten around. I'm assuming you haven't been keeping every single one of the 30+ babies you are hatching out.

The spider wobble is such a well known characteristic of the gene that it would be big news if it could be selectively bred out. Nobody has come forward with records, evidence, or anything that could be used to prove this. Instead the community is constantly reinforcing the idea that every spider morph has some degree of wobble.

To be perfectly frank, not joking or being a troll, if you really produce spiders that are wobble free I would be interested in purchasing one from you. I love spiders, and I'm sure many other spider lovers would be interested in having an animal they could use to improve their own stock.

[RichsBallPythons]

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

Thing is the wobble isnt a health issue. They live,eat and have good lives. Whos to say them wobbling all over is uncomfortable to them. No one knows what the hell its doing to them. If their eating,pooping, shedding find who are we to play god and kill em cause you dont want a wobbler. If i had a train wreck id never freeze it, Id keep it as a pet.

And yes I will continue to breed spiders, as there and AWESOME morph and wouldnt be where we are today in this industry without them, along with other base morphs.

[AK907]

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

And that is fine if that is what works for you, stick to it. More power to ya.

However in 99% of the cases I wouldn't really consider the wobble a health issue. A quirk maybe, but I haven't had any health issues with any of our spiders that was linked to their wobble. Ever notice how people brag about how their spiders are their best eaters and best breeders? Well I will certainly back those people up because our spiders are hands down our best eaters and breeders too.

So what you are saying is that if it has a bad wobble you automatically put it down? Is this anything like yanking teeth out of a rats mouth before feeding it to a snake so it can't bite back? If so I am NOT down with that at all.

Me personally, I don't give a crap what those uptight, holier than thou art jerks at Fauna think. I've met quite a few in person and let me tell you, I really wished I hadn't met most of them. I haven't used Fauna in a good year because of the people there.

[snake lab]

Severe cases yes. Why would i let an animal suffer. If the animal is so neuro that it cant eat or cant even stay upright what kind of quality of life is that? I owe it to the animals i love so much not to have them suffer.

[RichsBallPythons]

Severe cases yes. Why would i let an animal suffer. If the animal is so neuro that it cant eat or cant even stay upright what kind of quality of life is that? I owe it to the animals i love so much not to have them suffer.

Thing is, Ive NEVER heard this happening in spiders given their tract for being great feeders. I know quite a lot of people working with spider gene hatching hundreds of spider combos, and they never had to put a spider down cause it was a bad wobbler or wouldn't eat.

[snake lab]

@rich. I have had to put 2 spiders down, 1 bee , and 6 caramels, in my life. The bee and the spiders were really bad. They were produced 2 years apart from eachother from the same male to different females. I sold the male off and didnt have the issue again. The caramels were over a 5 year period and it was the result of that horrible tail kink issue

[PweEzy]

@rich. I have had to put 2 spiders down, 1 bee , and 6 caramels, in my life. The bee and the spiders were really bad. They were produced 2 years apart from eachother from the same male to different females. I sold the male off and didnt have the issue again. The caramels were over a 5 year period and it was the result of that horrible tail kink issue

So technically you just added another "bad breeder" to the market, by what you classify these spiders as. Seems a little counter intuitive to your own argument. As far as the earlier post, you said that this wobble is due to inbreeding. Because it is pretty well known that spider x spider has not been very successful, how can you verify that spiders are heavily inbred? Don't criticize people for"not reading what you type" before reading it yourself bud.