The (Drama FREE) Desert Thread. A different Perspective.

[Big Gunns]

Your vague/cryptic nonsense is getting a bit tiresome.

So is the whining about it.

[The Hedgehog]

All Big Gunns can say to people who posted on this thread is "ignorance is bliss".

Hope that's drama free enough for you.

NO, it's not. You are purposely stirring a pot on a conversation that cannot be proven one way or another yet. I don't appreciate it, and I'm sure that lots of other people, including the big time breeders don't appreciate it. You are bringing negativity to the community, and it's getting old, QUICKLY.

Your vague/cryptic nonsense is getting a bit tiresome.

THIS.

So is the whining about it.

Again, with the drama in my thread. Either post like a man, in first person, not hiding behind your computer screen, or don't post at all. The choice is yours, but pick one and only one.

I, like many will wait for a few more seasons before I base a verdict. Again, this project is only 10 years old or so. That's still WAY too early to make any calls. How many breeders have snakes that they've been working on for a long time with very little results? Exactly.

I'm tired of watching you stir the pot on conversations just to get a rise out of people. It is very tiresome.

[Big Gunns]

NO, it's not. You are purposely stirring a pot on a conversation that cannot be proven one way or another yet. I don't appreciate it, and I'm sure that lots of other people, including the big time breeders don't appreciate it. You are bringing negativity to the community, and it's getting old, QUICKLY.

THIS.


Again, with the drama in my thread. Either post like a man, in first person, not hiding behind your computer screen, or don't post at all. The choice is yours, but pick one and only one.

I, like many will wait for a few more seasons before I base a verdict. Again, this project is only 10 years old or so. That's still WAY too early to make any calls. How many breeders have snakes that they've been working on for a long time with very little results? Exactly.

I'm tired of watching you stir the pot on conversations just to get a rise out of people. It is very tiresome.

"Big time breeders"???***clears throat*****.... "Can't be proven one way or the other"????? Says who? "10 years" is not enough???? Clearly you have no idea about just about anything when it comes to this Hedgy. No worries though. Big Gunns is here to help the leeetle people like yourself.

Why "watch" then? There is an ignore feature on the forum. It would be a shame to ignore such brilliance, but if you must BG understands. What was that saying Big Gunns has about arrogance?

Big Gunns is still blown away by your statement that 10 years is not enough. That's a joke right????

Big Gunns can only say this one way Hedge. On this topic you're absolutely clueless. Sorry if that offends you...really...Big Gunns really doesn't like to offend his future fans, but it's true.

"You're gonna hate Big Gunns till you love him".

[wilomn]

The 'ignore' feature is really cool.

No matter what neil says, no matter how many words he uses, it comes down to two phrases.

1) Look at me, look at me!!!
2) I know something you don't but I'm not telling what it is.

You don't have to actually READ anything he writes, it's a truism.

The more of you who put him on ignore, the more of you who will no longer waste time better spent popping asspimples and the more of you who will not get sucked into his ego vacuum.

When was the last time he actually contributed to anything in a positive way?

Doubtless whatever kiddie site he's been on has now grown bored with his drama so he's looking for validation here.

Animals are a crap shoot. When you shoot craps for money, you take risks. Such is life.

If I recall Ralph was breeding kinked caramel males at one point. Who's to say what else he'd do, or not for that matter, that some would not agree with.

Here's a little factoid about things that generate money. People lie. They leave facts out. I neither know nor care if anyone has in this project or any other, it's moot. It happens is all that's important.

Sure there are trustworthy honest people out there. And as with all coins, there are others who are not. The edge of the coin is those who don't know. Keep flipping that coin and sooner or later you'll come in contact with representative from all three factions. It happens.

To think that everyone will tell everything about anything is ..... naive, veritably foolhardy.

If you can afford to take the chance and want to, go for it. If you can't, don't. I think it's really as simple as that.

[Big Gunns]

The 'ignore' feature is really cool.

No matter what neil says, no matter how many words he uses, it comes down to two phrases.

1) Look at me, look at me!!!
2) I know something you don't but I'm not telling what it is.

You don't have to actually READ anything he writes, it's a truism.

The more of you who put him on ignore, the more of you who will no longer waste time better spent popping asspimples and the more of you who will not get sucked into his ego vacuum.

When was the last time he actually contributed to anything in a positive way?

Doubtless whatever kiddie site he's been on has now grown bored with his drama so he's looking for validation here.

Animals are a crap shoot. When you shoot craps for money, you take risks. Such is life.

If I recall Ralph was breeding kinked caramel males at one point. Who's to say what else he'd do, or not for that matter, that some would not agree with.

Here's a little factoid about things that generate money. People lie. They leave facts out. I neither know nor care if anyone has in this project or any other, it's moot. It happens is all that's important.

Sure there are trustworthy honest people out there. And as with all coins, there are others who are not. The edge of the coin is those who don't know. Keep flipping that coin and sooner or later you'll come in contact with representative from all three factions. It happens.

To think that everyone will tell everything about anything is ..... naive, veritably foolhardy.

If you can afford to take the chance and want to, go for it. If you can't, don't. I think it's really as simple as that.

Look at me!!!!! Look at me!!!!!!!

[The Hedgehog]

"Big time breeders"???***clears throat*****.... "Can't be proven one way or the other"????? Says who? "10 years" is not enough???? Clearly you have no idea about just about anything when it comes to this Hedgy. No worries though. Big Gunns is here to help the leeetle people like yourself.

Why "watch" then? There is an ignore feature on the forum. It would be a shame to ignore such brilliance, but if you must BG understands. What was that saying Big Gunns has about arrogance?

Big Gunns is still blown away by your statement that 10 years is not enough. That's a joke right????

Big Gunns can only say this one way Hedge. On this topic you're absolutely clueless. Sorry if that offends you...really...Big Gunns really doesn't like to offend his future fans, but it's true.

"You're gonna hate Big Gunns till you love him".

No, 10 years is not enough. It's genetics. Plain and simple. Maybe if YOU understood that, then you'd take a step back and look just how much of a fool you are acting like. If you think you are honestly contributing to the community in a positive manner, please then prove us all wrong right now. I'll say it again, "We are doing in just a few years what would take nature thousands of years, if not longer to do". 10 years is nothing but a grain of sand in the folds of time.

Otherwise you're a negative mark, a blemish, a zit, or a wart on this community. This is nearly the same crap you pulled with the dolphins in Japan. Keep people hanging on to your every word and post because you have no friends in real life. This forum and others like it, along with the drama you bring to the table are all you have. At the end of the day, it's pathetic.

I know PLENTY on snakes and ball-pythons. Just because I'm not breeding doesn't make me uneducated about the subject. In fact, if anyone is being ignorant and arrogant, it's YOU. How much do you know about me? That's right, you don't know anything, and I wouldn't expect you to. However, I'm not the guy who hides behind a screen-name and uses 3rd person conversation on a forum. I'm not a guy who hides at expos and won't show his face on a forum to keep up this BS facade you have going.

I will never "love Big Gunns". In fact, I will continue to look at you like the troll you are, until you start posting like a normal human being, and actually provide evidence of the claims you make. Until then, everything you say will fall on deaf ears from me.

Have a nice day.

[Big Gunns]

No, 10 years is not enough. It's genetics. Plain and simple. Maybe if YOU understood that, then you'd take a step back and look just how much of a fool you are acting like. If you think you are honestly contributing to the community in a positive manner, please then prove us all wrong right now. I'll say it again, "We are doing in just a few years what would take nature thousands of years, if not longer to do". 10 years is nothing but a grain of sand in the folds of time.

Otherwise you're a negative mark, a blemish, a zit, or a wart on this community. This is nearly the same crap you pulled with the dolphins in Japan. Keep people hanging on to your every word and post because you have no friends in real life. This forum and others like it, along with the drama you bring to the table are all you have. At the end of the day, it's pathetic.

I know PLENTY on snakes and ball-pythons. Just because I'm not breeding doesn't make me uneducated about the subject. In fact, if anyone is being ignorant and arrogant, it's YOU. How much do you know about me? That's right, you don't know anything, and I wouldn't expect you to. However, I'm not the guy who hides behind a screen-name and uses 3rd person conversation on a forum. I'm not a guy who hides at expos and won't show his face on a forum to keep up this BS facade you have going.

I will never "love Big Gunns". In fact, I will continue to look at you like the troll you are, until you start posting like a normal human being, and actually provide evidence of the claims you make. Until then, everything you say will fall on deaf ears from me.

Have a nice day.

Big Gunns would love to know how you "hide at expos". Big Gunns has been trying to figure that one out for years now considering he's been to hundreds.

This statement by you says it all Hedge. "Just because I'm not breeding doesn't make me uneducated about the subject.

Unfortunately for you it sure does make you "uneducated" about this. Big Gunns has no idea why you can't see that.

As far as Big Gunns having "no friends". WAHHHHHH You meanie.....you really like to rub it in don't yah?

You did get one thing right though. There is NOBODY more "arrogant" than Big Gunns.....and we all know how much that bothers the weak.

[purplemuffin]

To be honest I am curious and would love the project to work out, but I am still not holding out too much hope for it. I think the reasons females are being sold at such high is because breeders truly believe the project will work out even if they don't have the proof themselves. Whether that's blind faith or they know something they aren't telling us, I don't know. I personally wouldn't sell females right now(Honestly with a morph like this even without problems, I'd keep every female I got so I could make more of these guys. Then with the problems I'd still keep them to see where in price these guys are gonna go and if any of them will lay healthy eggs)

I've always felt that ball pythons need a much greater temperature gradient than we often give them. It makes sense that certain morphs(aka mutations) would be more sensitive than the hardy normal, it's the same with many animals. Think about specifically bred cats and dogs, even with careful breeding certain traits just lead to sensitive stomachs-doesn't mean they have special needs normal cats wouldn't, but they are less able to accept the flaws in our own husbandry(bad cat food, etc).. My ball python used to be in a 55 gallon tank with tons of hides and a huge heat gradient. It was a lot of work keeping up the humidity and heat, but I found that maru used quite a bit of the tank. He would travel from hide to hide and enjoy the heat after a nice meal and sometimes cool off on the other end. He ate well and everything seemed to work great. We ended up having to move him into a tub because of reorginizing the house, and he took a while to get used to the situation. He's fine in it now, though even to this day he hugs the cold side far more often than the warm side, but I would enjoy one day giving him a bigger enclosure again, but one that was actually BUILT and holds in humidity rather than a tank! But that's just me. I don't have many animals, so I can afford to spoil them a bit more. And if he never ends up using the cooler end of the enclosure, that's okay, it will still look nice. He'll have identical safe hides all over where he can choose his comfort level

But anyway, the point is I think just like how the spider gene is sensitive to stress/excitement (wobble) and shows it's stress more than a ball python normal who experiences the same amount of stress, the desert possibly is a mix of genes that just happens to make the snake less tolerant of bad situations(Like crowntail bettas are NOT very tolerant to hard water, simply how the genes work out) meaning if you want deserts you gotta keep them in PERFECT conditions! But it could just be these specific animals, who knows!

OR..it could be infertile/really really close to infertile like some of the hybrid species(SO many dead clutches for one or two successful hatches..)

I feel it could end up being the latter--yes fertile, but you'll end up with a lot of slugs before you get eggs. It feels like we are getting some successes but a lot of failures, but things could always change.

I would be very happy to see deserts work out, I love them! But if they don't, I won't be too surprised, sadly. If they do.. bring on the deserts!


It is just crazy to see so many desert pairings happening with no clutch results. I see it on here, facebook, and other herp sites. The threads just die off about a week before the snake is supposed to lay, and suddenly they are never mentioned again!

Unfortunately that's the risk you take when working with genetics. If this rumor is true, a lot of people will have wasted a lot of money. Not like that's the first time this has happened though! Plenty of unique snakes have been imported for incredibly high prices, only to find out it isn't genetic or died on the way over. Awful, but that's what happens. It's a new gene, these people could possibly make thousands off of these animals if it works out, or they might have wasted that money on females who won't breed. We'll see how the lottery turns out.


As of what I have seen so far I say it isn't gonna happen. If someone proves me wrong later on, HUGE congrats!! Til then, I'll just watch the drama unfold

[Big Gunns]

Look at me!!!!! Look at me!!!!!!!

OMG!!!! Sorry fans.

Look at Big Gunns!!!!! Look at Big Gunns!!!!! That will never happen again.

"Drama free thread". Maybe we should go back and see just who started the drama on this thread before we blame Big Gunns. Twas not the magnificent one.

[llovelace]

I'm going to have to disagree to the statement of "10 yrs isn't long enough"
for viable clutches, I think 10yrs is plenty long, or am I missing something?