Dawn mite treatment

[rabernet]

Ok just to clarify... Lice the lice spray they are talking about is the exact same ingredient, in the exact same percentage, as PAM..

Go ahead. Read through the thread where the person who created PAM speaks about the differences. Draw your own conclusions.

I'm sorry but the same place manufactures these products and puts them in different cans. Of course PAM supposedly was proven to last on surfaces longer. Longer residual effects. Kills longer then the NIX, equate, or Walgreens lice spray. Ok. And?

I'm just saying, I will still use nix for preventative treatment around borders of cages, floors, walls, etc. Because it works so damn well, it's the same active ingredient with less "sticky" additives, and costs a lot less.

I make this argument only for those who say things like I will NOT use something, before they have any idea why people are even recommending it. In fact, I was going to tell the OP to get some and while waiting for the PAM, use it around the snakes cage and floors to prevent the mites from getting everywhere in the house. It's more than safe and very effective this way.

That's like the member that freaked out and said pine is poison! Get all the facts, read up on it, draw your own conclusions.

I beg to respectfully disagree. The ACTIVE ingredient, which makes up 1/2 % of the combined ingredients is exactly the same. No one can make the claim that Equate and PAM are EXACTLY the same, because neither list what the other 99.5% of the ingredients are.

I posted this on Fauna last year in a similar discussion:

What I find truly baffling is that a can of Provent A Mite costs $20 and shipping. Equate costs $5 from what I'm told. How much money have many of us spent to get a desired morph? And yet decide to be cheap when it comes to their safety and well being.

A can of Provent A Mite can last me over a year.

I always read "they're the same thing". How does anyone know that? The only active ingredient listed on either is Permethrin at 0.5%. What about the other 99.5% ingredients NOT listed? Can anyone say with authority that they're REALLY the same? My can of Provent A Mite lists "Other Ingredients" as 99.5% of the rest of the make-up of the product.

Isn't your collection worth the extra $15? How much would it cost you to replace a prized animal that was the one animal that had a reaction to Equate? That's a rhetorical question for anyone considering using a product NOT approved for reptiles.

[FatBoy]

The Dawn treatment is a good tempoary fix...just keep in mind your snake probably has 1000's of mite eggs in her vent, nostrils, and under it's scales if it was infected as bad as it sounds. These eggs will be hatching and making brand new mites. Do the Dawn treatment at least 2 times a week until the PAM arrives. I only use PAM in snake tubs where my animals are...but I do use the Equate lice treatment around the outside of the cages and also use it to spray my table covers when working a reptile show. I DO NOT believe they are the same...but...like mentioned above, it is ok around where the animal is not, and much cheaper. I would cringe to think about spraying a $20 can of PAM on a bed sheet to cover a table..$4 Equate ain't that bad.

[Skiploder]

There was a time that all I would use was PAM.

Some time ago, a debate occurred on another forum where the forumulations between the various 0.5% permethrin products were discussed and dissected.

I have a friend who's wife works for the Ortho division of Chevron. These forum discussions led to she and I having an in-depth discussion about the different formulations of inactive ingredients and how those would effect the efficacy and toxicity of the various brands with respect to reptiles or other living organisms.

This led to discussions about how the EPA grants approval for how a product is used - and how one formulation (but not another) can get approval for a specific use even if that formulation is the same as another product.

I'm not going to get into all the details here because this has become a touchy subject. What I will say is this: after talking to someone with a doctorate in this field, who works specifically in pesticides and has to deal with the effects on non-target species, the fine distinctions were clearly explained without the marketing spin.

Bottom line: be very careful how hard you argue this subject, especially if the information you are using to make your point comes from someone who has a monetary stake in it.

I've had various side conversations with members of this forum regarding this issue. Because of the "passion" with which this debate is often discussed, I have made a point not to bandy this information about. What I will say is this:

If you are new to dealing with mites, PAM is an excellent product to use because it comes with an explicit set of instructions on how to treat.

However, if you've been around the block a few times and know how to apply permethrin products, there are other equally effective options to use.

[Strick]

I beg to respectfully disagree. The ACTIVE ingredient, which makes up 1/2 % of the combined ingredients is exactly the same. No one can make the claim that Equate and PAM are EXACTLY the same, because neither list what the other 99.5% of the ingredients are.

I posted this on Fauna last year in a similar discussion:

I don't want to get into the debate about them being the same but have one question:

With all of the people that are using the Equate is there any documentation out there that there has been an issue using it?

I'm just curious because it just seems that if someone used the product and it caused a problem you would hear about it...

Yeah I know, everyone is saying why take a chance but people have and it would be nice to know

[Skiploder]

I don't want to get into the debate about them being the same but have one question:

With all of the people that are using the Equate is there any documentation out there that there has been an issue using it?

I'm just curious because it just seems that if someone used the product and it caused a problem you would hear about it...

Yeah I know, everyone is saying why take a chance but people have and it would be nice to know

People have had issues with Equate.

People have had issues with Nix.

People have had issues with PAM.

The main issue people have in all of the above cases is that they applied it incorrectly. there has been some anecdotal discussions about sensitivity in some species but I've never personally encountered it.

[FatBoy]

I am defiantly not the smartest fellow on the block but was blessed with a lot of common sense. I make decisions everyday based on common sense and not what I read or am told. Here is where I made my decision on the PAM vs Equate, Nix, Rid argument. On the can of PAM it clearly says to repeat the process in 30 days, and I have never had PAM fail me. On the cans of the other mentioned treatments it says repeat in 7-10 days. That's enough info for my common sense to kick in and tell me they don't lie dormant and kill newly hatched mites like PAM does. Remember....this is just my common sense talking

[Skiploder]

I am defiantly not the smartest fellow on the block but was blessed with a lot of common sense. I make decisions everyday based on common sense and not what I read or am told. Here is where I made my decision on the PAM vs Equate, Nix, Rid argument. On the can of PAM it clearly says to repeat the process in 30 days, and I have never had PAM fail me. On the cans of the other mentioned treatments it says repeat in 7-10 days. That's enough info for my common sense to kick in and tell me they don't lie dormant and kill newly hatched mites like PAM does. Remember....this is just my common sense talking

Sawyer's has a claimed residual action of 6 weeks - even on laundered clothes. It costs about a $1.00 per ounce.

It's manufactured by Coulston, who also manufactures PAM.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...DIST_NR=050404.

I'm interested in what your common sense has to say about that. No snark directed at you - just curious as to if that changes your thinking in any way.

[RestlessRobie]

Does all this talk about mites make anyone feel itchy just wondering
Robie

[kitedemon]

My comment is simple under the MSDS acts one ingredient (that is less that 1%) is allowed to be omitted from them to protect trade secrets. You simply cannot compare one to another based on MSDS sheets.

Permethrin and pyrethrin are both derivatives of the same flower (chrysanthemum) one is used as a chemical to KILL snakes ie the brown tree snake (guam) wolf snake (christmas is.) and copperheads (E. USA) it is highly toxic to reptiles. Mistakes in formulation and dosing have very serious consequences. Do not make mistakes.

P-A-M is formulated as a lice and bed bug treatment. As with all chemicals ignorance kills. Oh and remember Permethrin is highly HIGHLY toxic to cats! Causes neurological damage very quickly convulsions and death. Understand what you are dealing with, and don't have sad accidents.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

True but permethrin and pyrethrin are "active" ingredients in such a product and therefore would never be combined into the same product without listing both. In fact, no company would ever put both of these chemicals into one can anyway. So it would not be the unlisted ingredient.

I would never use a pyrethrin product. Head and bedding sprays contain permethrin, in the same percentage as PAM. If I ever saw one with the other ingredient, I wouldn't use it.