Help! Ball Python with swollen snout and recessed eyes. Anybody seen this before?

[SquamishSerpents]

So on Saturday I took out our spider female to show to a friend, and noticed she looked kind of funny. Like the way a burm looks like they have beady little eyes compared to their head. I asked my friend if she thought her eyes look a little bit sunken in. She didn't, so I thought maybe I was just being paranoid. Then I go to weigh her today, and notice that HOOOOOLY her face looks extremely swollen!

I examined the inside of her mouth and tried to get some photos, but it was extremely difficult to even open her mouth in the first place, let alone take photos with her squirming around.

She doesn't seem to be exhibiting any signs of an RI, and to me it doesn't look like mouth rot (stomatitis), but I have never seen that in a snake anyways, so I'm not 100% sure what I am looking for.

She is not showing any neurological symptoms, either, aside from a slight (teeny, barely noticeable) wobble after examining her. She doesn't usually exhibit any noticeable wobble, but she is a spider after all, so I wasn't really surprised to see it after all the stress I put her through.

While examining her, I did find a small piece of aspen in her mouth, but I'm thinking that is probably because it got stuck to her swollen upper lip and lodged inside, rather than the aspen being the cause of this swelling.

Right now she is QT'd on the other side of our apartment in a tub with only a water dish, hide, and newspaper substrate.

I didn't find any mucus or anything on the walls of the tub she was previously in. I was considering doing a saline rinse with a syringe, but I really wouldn't know what part of her I should be rinsing.

The closest (exotics) vet, Dr. Adrian Walton, is about a 5 - 6hr round trip for us. I have spoken with him on the phone and sent off some photos to get his opinion on weather this is an emergency situation and she needs to be brought in ASAP, or if there is something we can do for her at home. If he thinks it's an infection I'm wondering if he can have a local vet swab her mouth and prescribe some anti-biotics, as I know there is no chance of a diagnosis over the phone/internet.

Just wondering what you guys think, so I can semi-prepare what we are in for.

We are ready and willing to take the day off and make the trek to the vet if he thinks that's what we should do, in the mean time I just know there's not much we can do for her, and thought you guys might have some words of wisdom.

ACK, I'm babbling, my thoughts are all over the place, I am just so worried! We have never had to make a trip to the vet regarding one of our snakes yet!

Here are the photos I sent off to Dr. Walton:

[Cendalla]

Yeah I've never seen that before. It looks like she jabbed here self (or something) and has an infection from it. I wouldn't want to drive the whole trip either and stress her out if the vet couldn't do anything but I would defiantly take her to get swabbed and find out what to do from that. She could just need rinses or maybe antibiotics. What ever the case. I'm wishing you the best and let us know how it turns out.

[SquamishSerpents]

thank you for your reply.

that's what another person has said on Facebook, and kind of what i was thinking due to the little patch of redness between her top rows of teeth.

it's just like, "OMG MY NERVES!!!!" i don't know how i'm going to sleep tonight.

right now she is in her tub, sitting on top of her hide. not looking distressed or anything, so hopefully that is a good sign.

[aalomon]

I had a reticulated python that was terrible at nose rubbing and her mouth would get irritated and swollen just like that. My vet actually told me to take Berry flavored children's Listerine (alcohol free) and swab her mouth twice a day with a q-tip. It worked great.

[Cendalla]

I'm thinking if she's not showing signs of stress (and you as the owner would know her signs) than maybe the trip to the local vet should clear up any anxiety on your part. I know that feeling. It sits in your gut like a ball of lead and you worry it like a stone.

I had a reticulated python that was terrible at nose rubbing and her mouth would get irritated and swollen just like that. My vet actually told me to take Berry flavored children's Listerine (alcohol free) and swab her mouth twice a day with a q-tip. It worked great.

I'll have to add that to my 'little bag o tricks.'

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

The red spots on the inside of the mouth are irritation and possibly the beginnings of infection..

My female retic missed her rat once last year and hit the side of the cage. She ended up breaking a couple teeth and her upper lip swelled out like that. My vet gave her antibiotics but the swelling would come and go about once a month or every other feeding for at least 6 months. I guess it just irritated the area and she probably had tooth bits stuck in her gums which could never be found due to the swelling.

When it happens that fast and there are no signs of RI, it was most likely something that caused trauma to the inside of her mouth.

If you grasp her firmly just behind the head and press the stick of a Q-tip or ball point pen against her lips, she should open her mouth. You have to apply pressure. Do not be afraid to make her open it. Just pressing on the lips works. Then hold the Q-tip (horizontally) against the inside back of her mouth, pressing slightly against where her jaws hinge and holding it at a slight angle to urge her to keep her mouth open.

A pen works great for this too as it's a bit thicker. Holding something longer than her jaws are wide, against the back of her mouth while it's open, will cause her to keep her mouth open for treatment.

Don't feed her for a couple weeks to lessen irritation. Id flush it with saline and try the Listerine to kill bacteria. Then let the vet know how she is.

Increasing the humidity will help too. This keeps and mucous from building up in the case of an infection.

If it gets worse then she needs vet treatment. If it gets better then it should heal on it's own with a little tlc.

[RichsBallPythons]

Looks like the spider is doing some excess rubbing in the cage causing irritation and swelling. Could of even thrown a few teeth out of align and cause abscesses.

The reason the eyes look the way they do is cause of the font mouth swelling. Once that is taken care of the eyes will look normal again.

Most vets usually say use rubbing alcohol on the gums of the mouth to keep it clean and help the swelling go down. If you take yours it they may even give some stronger meds to help better.

[SquamishSerpents]

Thank you for the responses, so much!

I tried to keep her mouth open for a better look by using a business card, and then a paper CD case, but it didn't seem to work that well, even with extra hands. The Q-Tip sounds like it might be a better plan of action. I have heard you could force them to open their mouths by applying pressure, but was afraid of hurting her.

I will go get some Listerine to treat her tomorrow. Ummm, does it matter what flavor? lol. I would assume the yellow stuff might taste a bit harsh to her. Should I dilute it, or use it straight? And as for the rubbing alcohol, I wouldn't want her to fail a roadside screening...

Just kidding on that, but is rubbing alcohol really okay to use inside of her mouth like that? I suppose it should be diluted?

Is a saline ratio of 1/8tsp to 1 cup of water correct? That is what I use for piercings when they are healing, but a snake might need a different ratio. I have some leftover (packaged) syringes from when i needed to administer antibiotics to my cockatiel, so I was thinking of irrigating her mouth with that.

Is it ok to be using Listerine, alcohol, and saline rinses all at once, or should I choose one course of treatment and stick with it before moving on to the next? Is it ok if she happens to swallow some of the saline?

ACK, so many questions, but so many sincere thanks for your helpful responses.

I still have not heard from Dr. Walton, but since it doesn't seem extremely severe or like an emergency case I might just hold off on making the trip down there if I can treat her with some of these methods.

[SquamishSerpents]

Oops, forgot to mention. Now that I think about it, there was an incident awhile back (I'm thinking probably at least 2 months ago) where she had a very aggressive feeding response and actually wrapped the hemostats as well as her rat. It was quite awhile before she actually let go of them. Perhaps that caused some damage to her teeth, and continually feeding her further irritated her mouth?

[RichsBallPythons]

Try one product at a time and see how it works in a weeks time. If nothing changes, then change to the next on the list.

If you wanted to do diluted you can but not needed.