Does anyone keep their rodents in the house?

[jasbus]

Been breeding rodents commercially for over 20years, off and on. Cedar is bad, plain and simple. Great for odor control, yes, but bad for rodents...
You won't get respiratory problems with pine, as long as it's kiln dried. It's all I use...

Nobody is saying that feeding a snake a rat raised on cedar will kill the snake. We're stating that using cedar is bad for the animals that are being kept on it....

[jasbus]

Not to mention, the bigger the wood chips, the worse they actually help odor control. If you use a big shaving versus a small chip, the odor will start up quicker. I think you have it backwards...

[VicShell]

i have a 6 tub rack with 3 tubs of 1.3 groups on kiln dried pine and 2 tubs of growups and i clean every 3 days to keep the smell down you can't smell them in the house at all till day 3-4 then it starts to stink. But you can't tell unless you walk in the room.

[Redneck_Crow]

I kept them in the house and they did stink. That is one of the reasons why I switched to frozen.

I didn't need a cat for escaped rodents. I had a B&W Columbian tegu that was more than happy to serve as my bounty hunter. He was a far better mouser than most cats I've ever known.

[mmateo]

The Toxicity of Pine Shavings

There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings are harmful to the health of rodents. Both these softwood shavings give off aromatic hydrocarbons (phenols) and acids that are toxic. The phenols, which give the shavings their scent, is the reason why pine-oil is the major ingredient in Pine-sol brand disinfectant. In the laboratory, autoclaved pine shavings have been shown to inhibit the growth of micro-organisms. When animals are exposed to softwood shavings the aromatic hydrocarbons are absorbed through the respiratory tract and enter the blood.

The acids given off by pine shavings are very damaging to the respiratory tract. These acids can actually destroy cells that line the lungs and trachea. This has significant implications for rats since the most common diseases in pet rats are respiratory infections. Many owners of pet rats have reported the improvement of respiratory problems when they have switched their pets to a bedding other than pine shavings.
Pine toxins also affect humans and other animals. People who work in pine sawmills have a much higher incidence of asthma compared to workers in other dusty environments or those without any dust exposure. Another study found that chickens kept on softwood shavings had a higher incidence of respiratory infections.
Pine toxins affect more than the respiratory tract. Several studies have shown that rodents kept on softwood beddings have elevated levels of liver enzymes. The liver is the body's detoxification system, and elevated liver enzymes indicate that the body is working harder to eliminate toxins. In mice these enzymes started rising after only 24 hours exposure to pine shavings and only returned to normal when the mice were away from the shavings for 12 days. If pine shavings are heat-treated or soaked in a solvent, so that some of the phenols are removed, the effects are not as great, but still occur.
One study showed that the mortality of rat pups raised on pine shavings was tremendously high compared to rat pups raised on corn cob or aspen shavings. Of the pups raised on pine shavings, 56% were dead by 2 weeks of age, while only 0.01% of the pups raised on the other beddings died. The pine-raised pups also weighed about 23% less than the other pups (10).
Exposure to toxins is a stress on the body and constant stress can result in depressed or altered immune function. A study done in 1991 found that mice kept on pine shavings for only a month had a more highly reactive immune response. Mice kept on pine shavings for 8 months developed abnormally enlarged livers. This same study found that mice housed on pine shavings also had a decrease in reproduction rate. When given free choice of beddings, rats and mice reject pine shavings in favor of any other type of beddings.
There are also other dangers from softwood shavings. A study found that people in the woodworking industry who are exposed to softwood dust have a higher incidence of squamous cell cancers of the respiratory tract. A German study found that workers exposed to pine dust had more than a three-fold increased risk of glottal cancer.
Some claim that pine shavings which are heat-treated are safe because the heat drives off the toxins. There are currently products being sold, notably All-Pet Pine, Feline Pine, and Pine Fresh, that claim to be free of toxins. However, the studies found that heat treatment did not remove all the toxins from the wood. Heat-treated shavings still caused a rise in liver enzymes in rats and mice.
Pine shavings are often defended with the claim that customers are not forced to buy them. However, most rodent owners are not aware of the toxins in pine shavings. They assume that if a product is offered for sale, it must be safe. But just because pine shavings have been traditional and popular beddings does not mean they are safe. There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings cause harm to rodents. Because of the toxic effects of softwood shavings, laboratories have pretty much stopped using them for their animals.

[RichsBallPythons]

Your argument is the same thing that can be found from reading sites from others opinions and so on. Its nothing new and nothing scientific about it.

Just food for thought, aspen contains Phenols as well. Pine is fine to use for rodents as i been doing so 7 years. theres breeders using Pine for snakes for 10+ years no problems.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

The Toxicity of Pine Shavings

There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings are harmful to the health of rodents. Both these softwood shavings give off aromatic hydrocarbons (phenols) and acids that are toxic. The phenols, which give the shavings their scent, is the reason why pine-oil is the major ingredient in Pine-sol brand disinfectant. In the laboratory, autoclaved pine shavings have been shown to inhibit the growth of micro-organisms. When animals are exposed to softwood shavings the aromatic hydrocarbons are absorbed through the respiratory tract and enter the blood.

The acids given off by pine shavings are very damaging to the respiratory tract. These acids can actually destroy cells that line the lungs and trachea. This has significant implications for rats since the most common diseases in pet rats are respiratory infections. Many owners of pet rats have reported the improvement of respiratory problems when they have switched their pets to a bedding other than pine shavings.
Pine toxins also affect humans and other animals. People who work in pine sawmills have a much higher incidence of asthma compared to workers in other dusty environments or those without any dust exposure. Another study found that chickens kept on softwood shavings had a higher incidence of respiratory infections.
Pine toxins affect more than the respiratory tract. Several studies have shown that rodents kept on softwood beddings have elevated levels of liver enzymes. The liver is the body's detoxification system, and elevated liver enzymes indicate that the body is working harder to eliminate toxins. In mice these enzymes started rising after only 24 hours exposure to pine shavings and only returned to normal when the mice were away from the shavings for 12 days. If pine shavings are heat-treated or soaked in a solvent, so that some of the phenols are removed, the effects are not as great, but still occur.
One study showed that the mortality of rat pups raised on pine shavings was tremendously high compared to rat pups raised on corn cob or aspen shavings. Of the pups raised on pine shavings, 56% were dead by 2 weeks of age, while only 0.01% of the pups raised on the other beddings died. The pine-raised pups also weighed about 23% less than the other pups (10).
Exposure to toxins is a stress on the body and constant stress can result in depressed or altered immune function. A study done in 1991 found that mice kept on pine shavings for only a month had a more highly reactive immune response. Mice kept on pine shavings for 8 months developed abnormally enlarged livers. This same study found that mice housed on pine shavings also had a decrease in reproduction rate. When given free choice of beddings, rats and mice reject pine shavings in favor of any other type of beddings.
There are also other dangers from softwood shavings. A study found that people in the woodworking industry who are exposed to softwood dust have a higher incidence of squamous cell cancers of the respiratory tract. A German study found that workers exposed to pine dust had more than a three-fold increased risk of glottal cancer.
Some claim that pine shavings which are heat-treated are safe because the heat drives off the toxins. There are currently products being sold, notably All-Pet Pine, Feline Pine, and Pine Fresh, that claim to be free of toxins. However, the studies found that heat treatment did not remove all the toxins from the wood. Heat-treated shavings still caused a rise in liver enzymes in rats and mice.
Pine shavings are often defended with the claim that customers are not forced to buy them. However, most rodent owners are not aware of the toxins in pine shavings. They assume that if a product is offered for sale, it must be safe. But just because pine shavings have been traditional and popular beddings does not mean they are safe. There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings cause harm to rodents. Because of the toxic effects of softwood shavings, laboratories have pretty much stopped using them for their animals.

So you read the study so did I, now my question is this, what is YOUR hand on experience with rat breeding, pine pellets and pine shaving?

[jasbus]

Geez, when are people gonna stop quoting crap? I mean come on, I can post to the internet.

I've been raising rodents since 1985 on PINE, if I were losing 56% of my rat pups due to the use of pine, I'd hope I were smart enough not to use it anymore.

If you want to know what people use, and their experience with it, ask. Don't post a decades old publication on someone's opinion, that you know nothing about, or the motives for writing it.

I mean, seriously, I don't go out of my way to liver enzyme tests on my rodent population, but I do know that my rodents live a good life on pine with no RI's or other obvious signs of sickness.

If you want to find out the Campbell soup causes bowel obstructions in 15% of the population of a small species of pygmy elephant in Siberia, I can probably help construct a paper on it for you....

[billye1982]

I am re-building after my move and I am considering picking up 8 racks totaling 51 tubs. I plan to run 1-4 or 1.5 per tub.

Does anyone do something like that in their house?

I have 4 spare bedrooms and I have a 1000 ft partially finished (has an insulated and finished floor) attic that I can use.
I am just worried about smell and escapees.

Does anyone else do this and how does it work?

I know this is an old post, but I just read it for the first time. Four spare bedrooms? Holy cow, that must be a big house

[SlitherinSisters]

Mine are inside too, but they are in the basement in their own room-with the snakes. I use pine pellets for the tubs with lots of rats, and pine shavings for the moms with babies. The pellets work wonders!