Need help bad please

[youbeyouibei]

Wasn't trying to bash you or get down on you in anyway, Cinder and I sincerely hope it didn't come across as such. In line with what you said, it comes down in large part to personal experience and what each individual is comfortable with, as well as what's best for the animals and what their comfort/health level is.

Just don't want to step on anyone's toes or offend anyone and it's hard to tell tone, etc. via computer and text sometimes, so anyway...

[TDent1]

Balls are a great beginner snake. I'm basically a beginner myself with only about 6 months experience, and if you only get one ball, you'll want another snake soon enough. However, if you're set on keeping the tank you currently own, have you considered another reptile? Personally, I'm interested in ANY herp, all though right now I only own snakes. Why not look into a herp comfortable with that much room, or maybe a species of a larger size. I think someone mentioned heat/humidity. I owned a 55 gallon tank for a short time with a divider. Heat wasn't too much of a problem with the right lamp, but humidity was a HUGE pain. If you can find a herp that is comfortable with a lower humidity and tolerant of the occasional husbandry mistake, I say go for it! A couple Beardies may be great candidates (though what I know of beardies is pretty limited!). Breeders aren't handled much, but I held a male once who was a DREAM!

At any rate, I liked my tank set up for my ball, but when I realized it wasn't the best for him I switched to a tub. Don't be surprised if you end up getting rid of that tank to make your pet's habitat perfect.

[cinderbird]

Wasn't trying to bash you or get down on you in anyway, Cinder and I sincerely hope it didn't come across as such. In line with what you said, it comes down in large part to personal experience and what each individual is comfortable with, as well as what's best for the animals and what their comfort/health level is.

Just don't want to step on anyone's toes or offend anyone and it's hard to tell tone, etc. via computer and text sometimes, so anyway...

Oh don't worry I was just explaining what you and skiploder asked. I apologize for not clarifying the way I phrased the information. As a .."cardinal rule" i suppose, I would never suggest a new or novice animal keeper experiment with their animals or house them together (especially for something as trivial as "its too much money for two enclosures" kind of thing). It's just a poor idea all around. However, if you feel you have the experience with a species I don't think its a bad idea to try to learn more about your animals by changing their environment and seeing how they react (within reason).

[youbeyouibei]

Well-said, Cinderbird. Glad you didn't take offense at that, as none was intended. I'm not an expert at much of anything and most of that which I claim to be an expert at is less that useful in most situations, lol! (Does Call of Duty: World at War count?!). I couldn't agree more regarding the claim of money being the restricting issue, as that to me begs the question of why have an animal if you can't provide for it as it should be cared for? I realize how terse and short that sounds and don't mean for it to but again, the issue is the care and upkeep of the animal(s), soooooo...and as you said, if a person is a novice, why complicate the situation further by adding unnecessary stress and headaches to the equation by having less that ideal housing? I dunno...not my issue, I guess, so I'll just let it go.

You make a good point, TDent, with the species. Beardies are cool as can be and would do AWESOME in a tank that size, from what I know of them. That's part of what kept me from getting them, was their caging requirements, lol, but I haven't ruled them out entirely.

[Skiploder]

Let me add an edit to that quote that I sincerely forgot to add to my original post; I ONLY ever write posts on my personal experience or ideas. Since I do have some experience with these animals I should have mentioned that fact, I'm sorry. I wouldn't refer to them as cardinal rules either, but I did only write that original post with ball pythons in mind.



In the short time I've owned them, I've found MUCH less likely to stress than ball pythons. Exceedingly less likely to stress. My group were quarantined and housed separately for quite some time, the adults were introduced originally for breeding. I haven't seen any breeding behavior but I have yet to separate them from November or so. They seem to be doing fine as a trio. If I were to see signs of stress or resource guarding/domination/competition they'd be separated immediately. But in my experience, with these particular animals, I'm not seeing an issue cohabiting this group.

There are people who have owned them longer and surly have more experience on the matter.

I only give advice on species I've got personal experience owning for what I'd consider a significant length of time. In my experience, this species is more suitable for cohabitation than ball pythons are. But I don't cohabit my ball pythons so other than a basic understanding of the species (which i have) that is my educated opinion. I suppose I should also mention that my specific group of boas are all captive bred and fed on a diet strictly of rodents, they don't and have not ever been fed other reptiles as a food source. Does this change the possibility of cannibalism? No, it doesn't, but I feel it reduces the chance enough for me to feel comfortable keeping the adults as a group.

I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm not trying to pick a fight - just trying to understand the advice you gave the OP.

You listed 6 reasons to not co-habitate snakes. When I asked you about why candoia somehow fall outside those rules but balls don't you gave me a very cogent and thorough response.

But.......

Candoia are known better for cannibalism - more in young animals - than balls. While they are not as cannibalistic as some, the risk exists and I could probably argue it is higher than with balls.

As for your comments about quarantine and proliferation of disease in cohabitation - what is good for the goose (candoia) is good for the gander (balls). Why should a properly quarantined and tested pair of balls be any more likely to suffer from the spread of pathogens than similarly treated candoia?

Same with the concept of "cuddling" - it happens in just about all cohabited snakes - even when you provide them several optimum thermoregulation spots and a ton of space.

People have been cohabitating balls for years. Is it the optimum set-up? No. Can it be done? Yes. Should people new to snakes practice it? Probably not.........

But the same exact argument can be made for candoia. Candoia are known streaky eaters and are also known to stress fairly easily. Imports also come in parasite ridden and need to be aggressively treated.

So I'm at a loss. I can see why you wouldn't recommend cohabitating snakes in general to someone new to the hobby - I just am having a hard time seeing your apples to oranges comparison between candoia and balls.

[cinderbird]

I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm not trying to pick a fight - just trying to understand the advice you gave the OP.

You listed 6 reasons to not co-habitate snakes. When I asked you about why candoia somehow fall outside those rules but balls don't you gave me a very cogent and thorough response.

But.......

1. Candoia are known better for cannibalism - more in young animals - than balls. While they are not as cannibalistic as some, the risk exists and I could probably argue it is higher than with balls.

2. As for your comments about quarantine and proliferation of disease in cohabitation - what is good for the goose (candoia) is good for the gander (balls). Why should a properly quarantined and tested pair of balls be any more likely to suffer from the spread of pathogens than similarly treated candoia?

3. Same with the concept of "cuddling" - it happens in just about all cohabited snakes - even when you provide them several optimum thermoregulation spots and a ton of space.

People have been cohabitating balls for years. Is it the optimum set-up? No. Can it be done? Yes. Should people new to snakes practice it? Probably not.........

4. But the same exact argument can be made for candoia. Candoia are known streaky eaters and are also known to stress fairly easily. Imports also come in parasite ridden and need to be aggressively treated.

So I'm at a loss. I can see why you wouldn't recommend cohabitating snakes in general to someone new to the hobby - I just am having a hard time seeing your apples to oranges comparison between candoia and balls.

Numbered your paragraphs so they'd be easier to respond to.

I wouldn't recommend people with
- New import animals (mine are CBB)
- young animals (Mine long time adults)
- unquarentied animals (were quarantined)
house them together.

"You listed 6 reasons to not co-habitate snakes" I listed 6 reasons not to co-habitate ball pythons. My list would probably be a lot longer for candoia, and specifically Candoia bibroni australis, since that's the only species I've got experience with in the Candoia family. I don't think I've ever even handled a ground boa.

I thought the information would be more worthwhile if I could provide examples of where something would be a poor idea to do (the 6 list) and an example where I thought a successful trial of the (thing) in question has occurred. I find its more prudent to help people by giving them options rather than just telling them "no" all the time.

I understand that it may seem like I'm entirely contradicting myself, but I'm just giving my personal experience with the species named. Sorry for the long while it took me to respond. LONG day at work bleh!

[SpottedBOA]

I want to thank everyone for their input. You all have been helpful. I think I will save up and go with the rack system heard alot of good things about them.

[youbeyouibei]

Pluses and minuses to both, Spotted but whatever you decide, best of luck to you! Can't beat this forum for the input/information from people and the overall friendliness of the overwhelming majority of people on here. Take care and good luck!

[SpottedBOA]

Thank you all for the advise. We just ordered a rack system. This is the wife this time by the way. I am disappointed that I cleared out all my fish only to discover 1 day later it was all for not. But on the plus side hubby said I can probably get a turtle and I have been wanting one of those for a LONG time. Plus now we will be ready to grow our collection since our new rack holds 6 adults or 12 young.

[Johan]

Thank you all for the advise. We just ordered a rack system. This is the wife this time by the way. I am disappointed that I cleared out all my fish only to discover 1 day later it was all for not. But on the plus side hubby said I can probably get a turtle and I have been wanting one of those for a LONG time. Plus now we will be ready to grow our collection since our new rack holds 6 adults or 12 young.

That's awesome, I look forward to seeing what you pick up