Myth or factual?

[Miko]

* "don't keep the snakes food items near it at all"

This can be true, sometimes keeping food near your snake can stress it out. But usually only if it's in sight but unattainable. If they can smell it, it's okay because in the wild ball pythons usually take refuge in burrows wild rodents made.

* "don't feed the snake until after it defecates from the last meal"

I completely disagree, unless the snake hasn't gone to the bathroom for a month.

* "only feed it one mouse every 3 or 4 weeks"

For ball pythons of every age the time of eating is AROUND one week. Younger ball pythons eat more frequently than older ones.

* "don't give the snake a bigger enclosure because it will grow too fast"

Snake's size like every animal is based on genetics and the amount of food. The reason for a smaller enclosure is more to keep the snake from being stressed, for a big enclosure without a proper amount of hides will most likely make a ball python feel insecure.

[Domepiece]

I feed mine weekly whether they have deficated or not. And I dont think the size of the enclosure has to do with how fast they will grow, that has to do with how much they eat and as long as they have some nice tight hides a big enclosure is fine as long as it holds humidity and temps are right.

[Raverthug]

* "don't keep the snakes food items near it at all"
I just built a rat rack in the same room as the snakes stay.

* "don't feed the snake until after it defecates from the last meal"
I feed weekly altho have had a male fast for 6 months before he began to eat again. Let the snake tell you what he wants. If he eats weekly. Feek weekly

* "only feed it one mouse every 3 or 4 weeks"
I recommend trying to get your snake on rats as they are more nutritious. but again I feed every week

* "don't give the snake a bigger enclosure because it will grow too fast"
this is so wrong on so many levels. Let me ask you this. If you have a baby and you keep him in a shoe box does that mean your going to change the rate he grows? No Is he going to grow at a different rate if he grew up outdoors and had all the room he could ever want? no. The size of the enclosure isnt going to change the rate the snake grows. It is genetically disposed to only get so big. Now an enclosure thats to big may cause him to be nervous and have issues feeding but it wont effect how big he gets

[workingdawgs]

Thanks for all the replies!! Just for the record, I knew those pieces of "advice" were not factual because they just weren't logical... I posted for the opinions to prove my point to those few friends that are "snake experts", that even though I have just started keeping a snake, and researching about BP husbandry, I am not a dumb blonde chick who just tossed a snake in a cage and overfed/mishandled it/did everything wrong... lol... Heck, I know I come from a background in raising/training dogs for protection sports, and that dogs are different from snakes, but some things are just plain common sense! Plus I grew up in a very rural area which helps out with the common sense around animals/reptiles....

And I am thoroughly embarrassed at having stated that I keep my snake at 90C... of course I meant 90F, lol

In any event, the snake is coming from a home where she had no belly heat, no water crock, no substrate at all... just a regular 60watt bulb in the heat lamp and a hide, so now she is in paradise with her home

Thanks again!!
Michelle

[muddoc]

I agree with all of the posts in this thread, and all have given very good information. However, I did want to make 2 comments regarding information that I did read in this thread. Below are the quotes including the information I wanted to expound on.

Your BP will not overeat, BP's will stop eating if they are not hungry.

This is not completely true. A bal python will overeat, and can become "overweight". I have had a female that I got as an adult in 2006, and I fed her every week, an medium rat. The first year she laid eggs, they were all slugs, with the exception of one egg that died before it hatched. After speaking with many people, excessive fat stores can be the culprit of fertilized ovum not having enough room to develop, thus causing slugs. I have since had to cut this girl back to smaller meals every 10-14 days to regulate her weight and get viable eggs from her.

While this is not the case with every snake, it is possible to overfeed a ball python. A fat snake is not a healthy snake.

I recommend trying to get your snake on rats as they are more nutritious.

That debate has been held for many, many years, and I have never seen any data that suggests that one rodent is more nutritious. However, it has been proven that mice are leaner. If you can supply some documentation of this please do so, as I have been looking for information on the subject for a long time, and always enjoy adding to the articles that I have read. The common argument for getting a ball python onto rats, is that it is much easier to feed an adult BP rats, since a rat gets larger than an adult BP can eat, it makes it much easier to select one food item that is appropriately sized, versus having to feed a large adult female 9 mice a week. Switching babies to rats is easier than attempting to switch a 2 year old animal that has only eaten one type of food item it's entire life.

[Raverthug]

That debate has been held for many, many years, and I have never seen any data that suggests that one rodent is more nutritious. However, it has been proven that mice are leaner. If you can supply some documentation of this please do so, as I have been looking for information on the subject for a long time, and always enjoy adding to the articles that I have read. The common argument for getting a ball python onto rats, is that it is much easier to feed an adult BP rats, since a rat gets larger than an adult BP can eat, it makes it much easier to select one food item that is appropriately sized, versus having to feed a large adult female 9 mice a week. Switching babies to rats is easier than attempting to switch a 2 year old animal that has only eaten one type of food item it's entire life.

I dont have any. Its just something I have always been told since I got into snakes.

[Vypyrz]

That debate has been held for many, many years, and I have never seen any data that suggests that one rodent is more nutritious. However, it has been proven that mice are leaner. If you can supply some documentation of this please do so, as I have been looking for information on the subject for a long time, and always enjoy adding to the articles that I have read. The common argument for getting a ball python onto rats, is that it is much easier to feed an adult BP rats, since a rat gets larger than an adult BP can eat, it makes it much easier to select one food item that is appropriately sized, versus having to feed a large adult female 9 mice a week. Switching babies to rats is easier than attempting to switch a 2 year old animal that has only eaten one type of food item it's entire life.

Rodent Pro has the charts posted from a 2002 USDA study of the Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey Fed in Zoos, in which Protien, Fat, Calorie/Gram, Vitamin, and Mineral content is listed.

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

The U.S. Department of Agriculture report can be viewed here in PDF.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

Hope this helps...

[JLC]

Rodent Pro has the charts posted from a 2002 USDA study of the Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey Fed in Zoos, in which Protien, Fat, Calorie/Gram, Vitamin, and Mineral content is listed.

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

The U.S. Department of Agriculture report can be viewed here in PDF.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

Hope this helps...

The fact that that sort of nutritional content is available for feeder rodents is pretty amazing! What will be even more astonishing is when someone does a study that shows what ball pythons (or any other species, because I'm sure they vary a lot) actually NEED, nutritionally speaking. That's the part that is still completely unknown. Mostly people just make vague assumptions based on our own completely alien human dietary requirements.

[workingdawgs]

I guess I don't understand why a study would need to be done about what the nutritional requirements of snakes is. In my opinion, that study has already been done by nature. Malnourished snakes would not survive. Simply observing what each species of snake eats in their native environment should be all the study needed. Coming from a background in dogs, I firmly believe that the best diet for an animal is one which it would be eating if it were in a native environment, and that variety should be provided.

When I was feeding my dogs a prey model diet, they rarely got whole prey, but I always tried to keep variety in protein and organ sources for them, and in approximate proper percentages. I watched my dogs and knew when they needed more bone/organ/fat/protein, and did my best to provide that for them in the form of "frankenprey" aka, a mishmash of different sources that provide roughly the right amounts of each. As a result, my dogs were very healthy and robust, with good energy (not hyper uncontrolled energy, but focused energy and an off switch so they could relax). There were no problems with parasites, smelly skin/coat, chewing/licking... Their coats were shiny and their breath was fresh (for a dog, lol)

I would be interested in gathering more information about what ball pythons would eat in their native environment, and in what the availability (on average) would be for those prey animals. How does a ball python, in their native environment, hunt for food? Do they wait for the prey to come to them, or do they actively hunt? If they actively hunt for prey, do they range far to find prey?

Anyone have any of this information? I will be researching as well, but the more information that can be gathered, the better informed choices I can make for my BP

Thanks in advance.....
Michelle

[muddoc]

Rodent Pro has the charts posted from a 2002 USDA study of the Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey Fed in Zoos, in which Protien, Fat, Calorie/Gram, Vitamin, and Mineral content is listed.

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

The U.S. Department of Agriculture report can be viewed here in PDF.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

Hope this helps...

Thanks a bunch. I have actually seen the USDoA report before, but am always looking for other info. I will definitely look at the rodentpro stuff. My main point of my post was thet we hear this generalization often in the industry, but very little data is ever presented with the theory.