New BP soon, did I clean enough to keep this one alive?

[K2exotics]

Hi,

I'm going to possibly sound a little mean when I say this but I promise you that is not the place I'm coming from I just can't think of a better way of expressing myself.

Most people haven't had a snake die of unknown causes in their setup.

Now you seem pretty certain your friends snakes are healthy and that yours was healthy when you got it. For the record I am not so certain given the early regurge.

But.

The upshot of this is you need to take a few precautions when you get a new snake that other people don't really need to.

Keep the enclosure as simple and clinical as you can until your new guy has settled in and seems to be doing all right.

This means paper towels or newspaper as a substrate - something that is easy to clean and gets completely changed when the animal poops or pees. They also let you inspect said poop and easily bag it if you want to have it checked at a vets.

Papertowels also make it easier to spot mites etc.

Half log hides are never ideal but, since they were used by a snake with an unknown sickness I would hold off on using it again - a simple easier to clean hide would be a couple of those plastic drip tray saucers that go under plant pots. They are cheap as chips, easy to cut a door in, and very easily to sterilize if needed. BP's also tend to love them.

Now these aren't permanent restrictions - they are just sensible precautions until you know things are working out ok with the new guy.

Once that has been established you can think about moving more towards the type of setup you want long term.

One silly question I can't remember the answer to - what kind of bark is it and where did you get it?

It's almost certainly fine but I thought I'd ask.


dr del

I really agree with all of what Del has said here.. and that is a good question about the bark and the source of the bark Del.. I never would have thought of that.

[coldblooded]

Did you ever get a necropsy done on the deceased snake?

Dr. Del does raise a good point, the kind of bark is important and also where you got it from.

From what I recall, non-kiln baked softwoods are toxic to reptiles. Some wood products could also be chemically treated..

Quarantine habitats should be simple for reasons Dr. Del already stated. Please try not to get defensive, most people are just trying to help and may not be as eloquent as others.

Best of luck with your new snake! I'm sorry you had a rough start to the hobby with your last one.

[sicilian1928]

Did you ever get a necropsy done on the deceased snake?

Dr. Del does raise a good point, the kind of bark is important and also where you got it from.

From what I recall, non-kiln baked softwoods are toxic to reptiles. Some wood products could also be chemically treated..

Quarantine habitats should be simple for reasons Dr. Del already stated. Please try not to get defensive, most people are just trying to help and may not be as eloquent as others.

Best of luck with your new snake! I'm sorry you had a rough start to the hobby with your last one.

[/I]
I apologize if I have seemed to get defensive. I am just really trying to get the good information, but have gone about it in the wrong way. I us Repti Bark which is Fir bark.

[sicilian1928]

Hi,

I'm going to possibly sound a little mean when I say this but I promise you that is not the place I'm coming from I just can't think of a better way of expressing myself.

Most people haven't had a snake die of unknown causes in their setup.

Now you seem pretty certain your friends snakes are healthy and that yours was healthy when you got it. For the record I am not so certain given the early regurge.

But.

The upshot of this is you need to take a few precautions when you get a new snake that other people don't really need to.

Keep the enclosure as simple and clinical as you can until your new guy has settled in and seems to be doing all right.

This means paper towels or newspaper as a substrate - something that is easy to clean and gets completely changed when the animal poops or pees. They also let you inspect said poop and easily bag it if you want to have it checked at a vets.

Papertowels also make it easier to spot mites etc.

Half log hides are never ideal but, since they were used by a snake with an unknown sickness I would hold off on using it again - a simple easier to clean hide would be a couple of those plastic drip tray saucers that go under plant pots. They are cheap as chips, easy to cut a door in, and very easily to sterilize if needed. BP's also tend to love them.

Now these aren't permanent restrictions - they are just sensible precautions until you know things are working out ok with the new guy.

Once that has been established you can think about moving more towards the type of setup you want long term.

One silly question I can't remember the answer to - what kind of bark is it and where did you get it?

It's almost certainly fine but I thought I'd ask.


dr del

Oh no you havent come off wrong. Well said actually, but I use Repti-Bark which is Fir bark. I got it from Petco. So do you think I should just throw all of the bark away that I treated with diluted bleach water, and then baked for over 2 1/2 hours in the oven at 350 degrees? My family friend that gave it to me said that it may have been his fault in that he didnt realize that his girl bp had eggs. He noticed she was in he hide an awful lot and opened it up and saw the eggs. He said that eggs are supposed to be kept at a higher temp than he had the snakes in (88 degrees) for best results in the clutch. Could this have been a factor? Also if the mouse I gave him was treated chemically for mites/lice or if it was just carrying a disease- how long would it take to kill the snake? because it died within i would say 12 hours of feeding it.

[blackcrystal22]

Oh no you havent come off wrong. Well said actually, but I use Repti-Bark which is Fir bark. I got it from Petco. So do you think I should just throw all of the bark away that I treated with diluted bleach water, and then baked for over 2 1/2 hours in the oven at 350 degrees? My family friend that gave it to me said that it may have been his fault in that he didnt realize that his girl bp had eggs. He noticed she was in he hide an awful lot and opened it up and saw the eggs. He said that eggs are supposed to be kept at a higher temp than he had the snakes in (88 degrees) for best results in the clutch. Could this have been a factor? Also if the mouse I gave him was treated chemically for mites/lice or if it was just carrying a disease- how long would it take to kill the snake? because it died within i would say 12 hours of feeding it.

Wait, is this bark you're talking about the bedding??
You don't save bedding.. you toss it and replace after a month or so and certainly don't use it for new animals. For a new animal you should be using paper towels or newspaper instead.

Your friend does not seem to know very much about these animals. For one, the snake was in the enclosure with another snake and breeding without him knowing about it. To hatch the clutch you need an incubator with a specific temperature and high humidity - usually one that's hooked up to a thermostat.

Also, I work at a zoo and we hardly any porous material (besides aspen bedding that is constantly being switched out) and everything in the enclosure that is decorative is plastic/cleanable except for a few kiln dried climbing branches for certain species.

Since you have a glass tank, get two hides like this or similar:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes/
Small water bowl and no decorations. Pitch the log hide, they are terrible for ball pythons anyway.

Mice are generally not chemically treated and usually don't get mites/lice.. I do not think that the animal died from what it ate. Unless you purchased it from a petsmart or a petstore that specifically labels their small animals as being vaccinated and should not be used as feeders.

[sho220]

I want it to be happy not just survive in a bin with no room or anything to do.

The snake won't care one way or the other...it doesn't need room to run and play...all it cares about is eating, pooping, making babies and surviving...look up anthropomorphism...

Again...we've all been there...I thought for sure my first snake loved me...

[angllady2]

Please, please, please throw away that bedding!

You can't possibly get the bleach back out of it and even in small amounts that alone will kill any new snake. Bedding isn't that expensive for goodness snake.

I agree for someone you seem to be relying on for your information, your friend doesn't appear to know jack about these snakes. For pities sake how could he NOT know she was going to have eggs ? That just sounds WRONG to me. Like he isn't the least bit interested in proper husbandry or breeding or anything else. I'd stop listening to this "friend" if it were me, he doesn't know nearly as much as he's like you to think he does. It takes almost 60 days for eggs to hatch, and in all that time he was too lazy to lift a hide and check on the snake??!! And by the way, just because he can keep his snakes alive for a while doesn't mean he is taking good care of them. It means he's killing them slowly, and you don't need to make his mistakes.

If you are serious about getting another snake, and serious about keeping it healthy and happy, then you do whatever it takes. Stop worrying about saving the bedding, buy more for crying out loud. Anything in the snake enclosure that can be sterilized should be, anything that can't be needs thrown away. To START with, keep the enclosure as sparse as possible to eliminate the possibility of a recurrence of the unexplained death. Once the new snakes is eating, pooing and shedding normally, THEN worry about fancying up the enclosure. All a new snake needs to start out with is two identical hides for warm and cool sides, a clean water dish, some paper towels or newspaper that is easily removed as it becomes soiled, steady and correct temperatures and humidity. The rest is just for you, not the baby.

Buy your new snake from a reliable source, not a supposed friend who tells you he knows what he's doing and is too dumb to know when his snake has eggs. Find out when the baby hatched, when it had it's first meal, when it had it's first shed, when it pooed for the first time. Ask what it eats and when. Ask for a record of feedings and weights. ALL good breeders will have this information, did your "friend" ?

Once you get your new baby home, move it into it's carefully spartan home and wait a week before handling or trying to feed. Once it's eaten three of four times, pooed at least once and possibly even shed, then you can go about beautifying the enclosure to make yourself happy.

Gale

[Animals As Leaders]

WOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!

What is going on here? Sounds like everyone on this thread is trying to make this guys head explode with how complicated your making this sound...

You say he's being complicated, but to me it sounds like a lot of you have snake OCD...Not everyone does it the same....and there are more then one way to take care of a snake. Just because we don't all do it the same doesn't mean one person is right...

I also didn't realize decorating a tank for a snake causes stress lmao! Gimme a break guys I've had both tubs, and tanks and it DOES NOT CAUSE STRESS. As long as you accommodate to their main needs, theres nothing wrong with it. It does mean however you have to clean everything in the tank regularly. As long as you keep up with it theres no problem. That was a funny one really...

I wouldn't worry too much on how the snake died...W.o necropsy you'll never know, and you'll tear your hair out trying to. So drop it, and move on. Sorry for your loss, but it sounds like a fluke...Just make sure you do it right this time and take no risk. And putting 3 hides and a water dish is not risking anything at all. So your fine there.

Using reptile bark is probably not the best to use, but it totally is fine as long as you replace it regularly. I personally use paper towels, and they work great. To me paper towel are the way to go. Easy to spot clean, and cheap to boot. Just make sure to clean regularly...I would recommend not feeding on it though just to be safe.

Cleaning really isn't a big deal, and you don't have to go that crazy. I clean once a week, and I use a 10% bleach solution. Not once have I had any issues with this. I'm sure someone is going to chime in and say "YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE I DON'T, AND I KNOW EVERYTHING!!" This is a very opinionated site...get used it.

[Animals As Leaders]

No...you're just making it complicated with all the extra crap you have in the enclosure...but to each his own....good luck trying to keep it all clean...

Wow, really? I didn't realize cleaning accessories in a tank is that complicated...Sounds like you guys are either LAZY, or just plain crazy...BP.net never seizes to amaze me. How come I never run into problems like this? JUST CLEAN REGULARLY...NOT HARD...sheesh.

Thread killer huh? This sound quite accurate...

[Animals As Leaders]

Its conversing, not arguing. I am putting things out there to be thought about that have been told to me. Just about every person I have talked to, which include long time snake owners, pet store owners and a reptile house owner have said I have done an excellent job with the husbandry and cleaning. I do want many ideas on the matter but when I have been told by an overwhelming majority of people that I my cage was just about perfect its funny to hear people telling me that bark is a bad idea to have and a half log is unnecessary. sure its easy to use paper towels, but I wont take the easy avenue with this snake. I want it to be happy not just survive in a bin with no room or anything to do.

lol

Listen...Snake racks are probably the best way to keep snakes. Tubs w/ paper towels are one of the easiest most effective ways of keeping them. When I made the switch it resulted in great feeding response, and less skiddish personalities.

If you think a snake is going to acknowledge all the little accessories in your tank, and be a better animal your mistaking. Snakes are secretive, and prefer smaller enclosures. Having a nice pretty looking enclosure doesn't make a snake feel more at home lol. Their not exactly that bright. These snakes in their natural habitat are mostly found in rodent burrows which are small tight, and humid. Snakes are prey for a lot of animals and are programmed by nature to be super careful and secretive. If you think my snakes are unhappy because they are in tubs and don't have the "room" yours have you couldn't be more wrong. I handle all my animals quite often and they get their exercise, and don't just sit in their tubs all day. They don't have the "dora the explorer" attitude you think they have lol.

But I wish you the best of luck regardless of what care techniques you use. Just make sure to keep an eye on the temps/humidity, and clean regularly and thoroughly. As long as you follow those main instructions you will be fine. To me, it sounds like you have a good idea on what needs to be done to care for BP's. Just don't go too crazy with accessories and keep it somewhat simple.