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Re: spider x spider
 Originally Posted by Steveoo
ok that makes some sense. for the most part all of the posts iv seen on any spider to spider has just been people fight weather they think its lethal or not. but Kyle@theHeathertoft makes a point and adds some reasons behind it. thank you very much
Y'are most welcome. 
where did you find this information? I tired to find info like this and didn't find crap.
Oh my god, it's not like a wrote a college thesis about it. I did my research, decided that I am not going to be intimidated by the wobble because the pattern is beautiful and frankly so long as the animal has quality of life I don't CARE if they flail around a little...and left it at that. I've since had to get a new computer, which means all my bookmarks are lodged in my ancient Behemoth computer, and moreover I can't guarantee I actually saved them in the first place. That and nothing can be done about face-to-face discussions with breeders at expos. Heck if I know...took me long enough to find what I found, now it's someone else's turn to look.
1.1 Mojave BP ("Caffè Macchiato;" name pending)
1.0 Cinnamon BP ("Jayne")
1.0 Pastel BP ("Elliot")
0.1 Normal BP ("Biscotti")
0.1 Spider BP (name pending)
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milksnake ("Bowline")
1.0 Dumeril Boa ("Julien")
0.1 Super-Dwarf Reticulated Python ("Temperance")
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Re: spider x spider
 Originally Posted by Kyle@theHeathertoft
Oh my god, it's not like a wrote a college thesis about it.  I did my research, decided that I am not going to be intimidated by the wobble because the pattern is beautiful and frankly so long as the animal has quality of life I don't CARE if they flail around a little...and left it at that. I've since had to get a new computer, which means all my bookmarks are lodged in my ancient Behemoth computer, and moreover I can't guarantee I actually saved them in the first place. That and nothing can be done about face-to-face discussions with breeders at expos. Heck if I know...took me long enough to find what I found, now it's someone else's turn to look. 
Well thing is I found nothing online, nothing even about someone claiming to have done a spider to spider breeding with results and all the breeders I talked to at the expos eigher said it was lethal just because thats what everyone else says or say no one knows.
your the first person I've seen to claim to know something, so I'm trying to learn.
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Registered User
Re: spider x spider
It literally took me months and it involved a lot of hearesay and crap. To my knowledge it's never been officially tested or anything, either.
1.1 Mojave BP ("Caffè Macchiato;" name pending)
1.0 Cinnamon BP ("Jayne")
1.0 Pastel BP ("Elliot")
0.1 Normal BP ("Biscotti")
0.1 Spider BP (name pending)
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milksnake ("Bowline")
1.0 Dumeril Boa ("Julien")
0.1 Super-Dwarf Reticulated Python ("Temperance")
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The Following User Says Thank You to Kyle@theHeathertoft For This Useful Post:
OhhWatALoser (08-04-2010)
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Registered User
Re: spider x spider
ok well than im going to breed to spiders het axanthic this up coming breeding season and see what happens if nothing else ill waist one clutch of eggs. im not making my living from it so i dont mind =]
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Registered User
Re: spider x spider
Just jumping on the bandwagon. If you breed spider x spider, then you only have a chance of getting spiders out of the clutch (as opposed to spider-pastel (bees), spider-cinny's, spinner's, etc). Also, as already mentioned, further inbreeding of the spider gene, besides being potentially "fatal", may increase the likelihood of the wobbles. That's why most breeders breed spiders to other co-doms, recessives, etc. BTW, the Axanthic spider IS killer!
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Registered User
Re: spider x spider
BTW, the Axanthic spider IS killer!
See I just don't know what I should try to breed my Spider to when she's big enough...my Mojave? My Cinny? My Pastel? Maybe toss in all three and let it be a suprise? I do love the Spider patterning, and the wobble doesn't intimidate me.
1.1 Mojave BP ("Caffè Macchiato;" name pending)
1.0 Cinnamon BP ("Jayne")
1.0 Pastel BP ("Elliot")
0.1 Normal BP ("Biscotti")
0.1 Spider BP (name pending)
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milksnake ("Bowline")
1.0 Dumeril Boa ("Julien")
0.1 Super-Dwarf Reticulated Python ("Temperance")
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Registered User
Re: spider x spider
now see i have a 2 normal het axanthic females one spider het axanthic and one normal male axanthic and one female het axanthic. but wouldnt you think my chances of getting the axanthic spider would be highest breeding spider to spider?
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Re: spider x spider
 Originally Posted by brian abrams
Just jumping on the bandwagon. If you breed spider x spider, then you only have a chance of getting spiders out of the clutch (as opposed to spider-pastel (bees), spider-cinny's, spinner's, etc). Also, as already mentioned, further inbreeding of the spider gene, besides being potentially "fatal", may increase the likelihood of the wobbles. That's why most breeders breed spiders to other co-doms, recessives, etc. BTW, the Axanthic spider IS killer!
rumors or just untrue
there is not one speck of evidence that spiderxspider will have any effect on the wobble. tho there is that its random the degree of wobble they get.
breeders breed spiders to other codom recessives ect... aka other morphs because thats what we do in the designer ball python world, I could say the same thing for every other morph out there. they don't do plain spiderxspider because there appears to be no super form, so there is nothing to gain.
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The Following User Says Thank You to OhhWatALoser For This Useful Post:
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Re: spider x spider
 Originally Posted by Steveoo
now see i have a 2 normal het axanthic females one spider het axanthic and one normal male axanthic and one female het axanthic. but wouldnt you think my chances of getting the axanthic spider would be highest breeding spider to spider?
I only count one spider?
but your answer is we can't answer that for reasons above, honestly if what your shooting for is axanthic spider, breed a spider het to an axanthic, that gives you a 25% chance for spider axanthic. 12.5% if you breed a spider het to a het. keeps it simple.
tho if you do end up with some sort of spiderxspider pairing, please post as much detailed info as possible.
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Re: spider x spider
Never met TSK in person and can't really say I know them but they seem genuinely concerned with adding the ball python knowledge base so thinking it will be ok to share results from a few e-mails with Colette on this subject over the years.
In 2007 they produced 8 eggs from spider X spider and the two smallest eggs didn't hatch. Colette didn't mention the spider to normal ratio of the six hatchlings from 2007 but did say all the spiders where female so haven't bred yet.
In 2008 they produced 6 good eggs and one slug from spider X spider and hatched 1.4 spiders and a normal. The male wasn't bred yet for this year.
So, no breedings yet to test the possible homozygous spiders. Out of 15 eggs 3 didn't hatch but not sure if the slug should be counted or not. Did the other two eggs not hatch because they where small or where the small and didn't hatch because they where homozygous spiders?
NERD reported years ago that "enough" breedings had been done to prove that there wasn't a different looking homozygous spider but didn't quantify.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RandyRemington For This Useful Post:
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