Barcelona, Spain Bans bull fights- Opinions

[unspecified42]

Because deer huting and fishing is any different? Is all tradition.

If you had read the entire reply of mine that you quote you would not have asked this question.

I know many hunters and fishermen. I don't know any who make it a goal to torture their prey to death slowly for pure fun. The goal of any hunter is to take an animal down as quickly as possible (whether because of their own moral beliefs about killing or simply because it's easier than chasing a wounded animal through the woods). The two are not comparable.

[j_h_smith]

That is true. Unfortunately our society and culture is such that it is difficult to avoid cruelty to other living beings. However, that is no excuse for not attempting to reduce it. I personally do quite a bit in my own life to prevent being party to some common cruelties.

What we are talking about is pure sport. There is no purpose for bullfighting. There is no reason beyond the interests of a morbid crowd. I can see no logical reason to think this is acceptable.

Unless you have been raised in this culture, you can't understand "the purpose for bullfighting". You do realize the meat from the bull is butchered and sold, just like the meat you buy in your grocery store.

I don't understand why people from other cultures want to judge others and THEIR culture. Don't tell me that sitting in your house on Main St, Anywhere USA, you know anything about the culture and history of bullfighting.


Jim Smith

[j_h_smith]

Just playing devil's advocate, but regardless of animal cruelty elsewhere, that doesn't make this instance of animal cruelty any different. Animal cruelty is animal cruelty. We shouldn't try to justify one instance of it because there are other instances of it. But I digress, probably starting to get OT.

As for the ban, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand I feel it is animal cruelty. You're essentially torturing the animal over the course of a period of time until it dies.

On the other hand, I can appreciate the cultural traditions that come with it.

I could be in favor of some compromise, where maybe after the bull has been injured a certain number of times, it is either instantly and humanely killed to end its suffering, or maybe its taken out of the ring, bandaged, and put out to pasture. I'm not sure what the answer is.

I personally don't like bullfighting. I went while in Mexico. But I will NEVER allow my feelings or opinions to judge another culture. There are so many things that would disgust you if you knew of what other cultures do as a tradition(s).

The only compromise is for us (non Spaniards) to allow them to determine what is best for their people.

Jim Smith

[unspecified42]

Unless you have been raised in this culture, you can't understand "the purpose for bullfighting". You do realize the meat from the bull is butchered and sold, just like the meat you buy in your grocery store.

I don't understand why people from other cultures want to judge others and THEIR culture. Don't tell me that sitting in your house on Main St, Anywhere USA, you know anything about the culture and history of bullfighting.


Jim Smith

I don't. And I don't need to. What I do know is that it brings unnecessary suffering and that that is wrong. Cultural tradition is not an excuse for cruelty. That is something we recognized in this country when we made the long-standing cultural traditions of dogfighting and cockfighting criminal offenses.

Also, I do not buy meat from a grocery store. The only meat I consume comes from the animals that I raise and humanely slaughter myself. I am careful about the animal products that I buy as well, opting at least for a trusted local source when vegan options are not available.

We will never end cruelty, but that is no excuse for not trying. Abuse of any living thing- from a fighting bull to an elderly human being- is unacceptable and immoral. This is without exception.

[unspecified42]

The only compromise is for us (non Spaniards) to allow them to determine what is best for their people.

Jim Smith

I'm not clear on why you are arguing in this thread, then. Isn't that exactly what happened here?

[j_h_smith]

If you had read the entire reply of mine that you quote you would not have asked this question.

I know many hunters and fishermen. I don't know any who make it a goal to torture their prey to death slowly for pure fun. The goal of any hunter is to take an animal down as quickly as possible (whether because of their own moral beliefs about killing or simply because it's easier than chasing a wounded animal through the woods). The two are not comparable.

The fact is that hunters place their best shot to kill the animal. Many times that shot does not kill the animal immediately. In most cases, the animal runs off to die from blood lose. As a hunter, I've had to place a second shot through the heart of the animal I was hunting, because my first shot didn't kill the animal. Bow hunters NEVER kill the animal immediatley. They all die from blood lose.

If you've ever been upland hunting and shot a bird, sometimes you have to ring it's neck because your shotgun didn't do the job perfectly.

So, these two sports are a little more comparable than you might want to think.

Jim Smith

[unspecified42]

The fact is that hunters place their best shot to kill the animal. Many times that shot does not kill the animal immediately. In most cases, the animal runs off to die from blood lose. As a hunter, I've had to place a second shot through the heart of the animal I was hunting, because my first shot didn't kill the animal. Bow hunters NEVER kill the animal immediatley. They all die from blood lose.

If you've ever been upland hunting and shot a bird, sometimes you have to ring it's neck because your shotgun didn't do the job perfectly.

So, these two sports are a little more comparable than you might want to think.

Jim Smith

I am not naive. Similar things happen from time to time when we slaughter our animals as well. As I have said, sometimes causing suffering is unavoidable. That does not mean that the intentional torture of a creature should be excused.

You have not told me anything that I don't already know, nor have you at all change my opinion.

[j_h_smith]

I am not naive. Similar things happen from time to time when we slaughter our animals as well. As I have said, sometimes causing suffering is unavoidable. That does not mean that the intentional torture of a creature should be excused.

You have not told me anything that I don't already know, nor have you at all change my opinion.

And you think I'm trying to change your opinion? That's illogical.

Jim Smith

[xdeus]

I love a good steak like the next guy and would have no problems killing my food, but I do have a problem with the barbaric tradition of bullfighting. Just because it's a tradition, doesn't mean it shouldn't be banned.

Slowly torturing an animal for the enjoyment of others is just sadistic.

Take a look at pictures #38 and #39 from this set and tell me this is just a quaint little tradition. Photo blog link.

[j_h_smith]

I love a good steak like the next guy and would have no problems killing my food, but I do have a problem with the barbaric tradition of bullfighting. Just because it's a tradition, doesn't mean it shouldn't be banned.

Slowly torturing an animal for the enjoyment of others is just sadistic.

Take a look at pictures #38 and #39 from this set and tell me this is just a quaint little tradition. Photo blog link.

Yes but you are imposing your beliefs and morals onto another culture. That's why I'm arguing this point. I don't like bullfighting at all, I've seen it in Mexico and didn't care for it. BUT, I can't and you shouldn't impose our beliefs onto that culture.

Jim Smith