The Pine Debate

[wilomn]

No, again--no one has done any studies on the effects of the volatile oils in pine on snakes--not that I am aware of.

Also, no one has done any studies to see if switching from another type of bedding over to pine has increased respiratory issues in their snakes.

That was my point. Since we DON'T know, most people choose to play it safe, and not use something that causes harm in other species of animals. You're promoting the idea that they should assume it is safe, because there's no direct evidence that it isn't safe.

It is irrelevant whether there is proof, or evidence, that it causes harm to snakes, because there is no proof, or evidence, that it does not. There is no evidence one way or the other. What large breeders choose to do is likewise not relevant, because THEY HAVE NO EVIDENCE, EITHER.

Snakes live for a very long time. It's easy to see a pattern in animals that live for only 4 or 5 years, tops. In animals that live to be 30, it's MUCH more difficult to see a trend in the form of shortened lifespans. I would hazard that only someone with a HUGE collection running an actual experiment--using pine for half and newspaper or aspen for half--over a span of perhaps 60 years--could have a hope of providing a real answer on this.

However, in the short term, some lab student could easily conduct a test on liver enzymes in snakes kept on pine versus those kept on aspen or newspaper. I would be VERY interested in seeing the results of such a test.

If the results showed that liver enzymes were not elevated in snakes on pine, I would switch to using pine myself. But I need evidence before I risk my snakes--positive scientific evidence, not mere 'I didn't notice anything' by keepers.

Hole in Theory Number 1.
The liver is not the sole filter of the body.
Hole 2.
There are those who have kept snakes for decades, maybe not six but more than three, on pine. Still doing fine, still breeding regularly, still looking fantastic. Personal experience.

I personally have not noticed detrimental effects from pine on any snake I've kept it on. I have kept thousands and thousands of snakes on pine. Not tens, not hundreds, thousands and thousands. Mice too. Rats as well.

If you're gotten snakes from me or seen them at a show....Pine.
If you've gotten rats from me or seen them at a show.... Pine.

No sneezing, no sniffling, no coughing. Fat healthy snakes and their food.

All on pine.