Another one for maternal incubation...

[anatess]

IT'S ONLY DAY 9. It's been a VERY long 9 days...

How in the world do you guys wait 60 days????????????????????

[snakesRkewl]

Any advice on whether to keep changing the water daily or leave it for 3 days at a stretch?

Ball pythons do not need water changed daily, every 3 days or so is perfectly fine

[dr del]

Heh,

IT'S ONLY DAY 9. It's been a VERY long 9 days...

How in the world do you guys wait 60 days????????????????????

Well putting them in an incubator that doesn't need feeding and watering helps.

I use a wireless temp probe which means I don't need to look at the incubator to keep track so I only really do a weekly check on the eggs for candling, problems etc.

Having to see them everyday while checking on mama would drive me cookoo.

Whats mama's temperament like while she is doing this and how often does she leave the eggs to drink or feed?


dr del

[anatess]

Heh,



Well putting them in an incubator that doesn't need feeding and watering helps.

I use a wireless temp probe which means I don't need to look at the incubator to keep track so I only really do a weekly check on the eggs for candling, problems etc.

Having to see them everyday while checking on mama would drive me cookoo.

Whats mama's temperament like while she is doing this and how often does she leave the eggs to drink or feed?


dr del

Psycho mama is what she is right now. Have to be very careful changing the water dish coz if her head is peeking out the hole, then she's gonna tag and you're it. Fortunately, nobody has been bitten yet. We've been changing the water only every 3 days and besides that and the daily temp/humidity/smell check which we do without opening the tub, we've been leaving her pretty much alone.

The water dish is right next to the hole of her "egg hide" so she just extends her neck out the hole and drinks.

We fed her on day 2, so we're not gonna try again until day 12. Which would be the time we plan on re-candling, visually checking the eggs, etc.

From what we can see (we can only see the top 2 eggs within her coils, the eggs are white and lost its dimpling around day 4). There is no smell, not even poop smell, so she hasn't pooped yet, we think. But, we won't really know for sure until we take her out 3 days from now...

THREE DAYS FROM NOW SOUNDS SOOOOOO FAR AWAAAAAY! I can't think of 51 days from now. That's just crazily far away. Not sure if the incubator would change things. It would still be FAR AWAY!!!

I feel like I'm having a 3rd child...

Any and all advice on care for both mom and eggs are all completely welcome...

[Quiet Tempest]

Psycho mama is what she is right now. Have to be very careful changing the water dish coz if her head is peeking out the hole, then she's gonna tag and you're it. Fortunately, nobody has been bitten yet. We've been changing the water only every 3 days and besides that and the daily temp/humidity/smell check which we do without opening the tub, we've been leaving her pretty much alone.

The water dish is right next to the hole of her "egg hide" so she just extends her neck out the hole and drinks.

We fed her on day 2, so we're not gonna try again until day 12. Which would be the time we plan on re-candling, visually checking the eggs, etc.

From what we can see (we can only see the top 2 eggs within her coils, the eggs are white and lost its dimpling around day 4). There is no smell, not even poop smell, so she hasn't pooped yet, we think. But, we won't really know for sure until we take her out 3 days from now...

THREE DAYS FROM NOW SOUNDS SOOOOOO FAR AWAAAAAY! I can't think of 51 days from now. That's just crazily far away. Not sure if the incubator would change things. It would still be FAR AWAY!!!

I feel like I'm having a 3rd child...

Any and all advice on care for both mom and eggs are all completely welcome...

Congrats on the clutch! Maternal incubation is definitely a rewarding experience, but I would caution you to not remove her from the clutch or feed her any more meals until she's finished her brooding task.

Getting back to feeding on regular sized meals can sometimes make them lose interest in brooding. They fast during this time and it gives them a concave belly perfect for protecting the eggs. If you fill the belly, she may stop doing what she needs to do. If you really must feed her anything, make sure it's something very SMALL so that it doesn't making brooding uncomfortable for her.

When I let my female do this last year, she fasted for many months. I did offer her a meal a couple weeks into incubation but she wanted nothing to do with it and I didn't offer again until her eggs had pipped and babies were crawling around her. After that, she started chowing down on rats again and regained her weight in no time. This year, I've got two females maternally incubating and even though I have an incubator on standby, I'm afraid that moving either female will kick them out of mommy mode so I'm only opening their tubs every few days to give them fresh water and, if their coils are loose enough, get a quick glimpse of the tops of eggs.

Hope it helps and good luck!

[LadyOhh]

Why are you feeding her while she is incubating?

[anatess]

Why are you feeding her while she is incubating?

Very good question LadyOhh! In my research - books and in this forum, the #1 disadvantage to maternal incubation is that the mamma snake uses tons of energy and use up tons of fat to incubate and end up losing up to 1/3 of her weight in the process.

I was reading this one thread here (if I find the thread, I'll post it, right now I can't seem to find it) that was linked by other threads about maternal incubation and how she tried to feed mamma snake but she won't eat. So, I figured to try to feed my mamma snake too while I was moving her to a better "egg environment". And she ate... so I figured to just keep her 10-day feeding schedule that she has been on for the past year.

But, it seems like that is not the right route, so I'm going to just keep my every-3-day watering schedule and that's it.... for the next FIFTY-ONE days! I still can't believe how far away that is!

I got the make-shift cooler-turned-incubator just in case.

[anatess]

Here's the thread I was referring to:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=33496
There's a different thread that Quiet Tempest posted (it might be on a different forum) on this same snake that mentioned her trying to feed the mamma. I can't find it though.

And here's an excerpt from a book showing the mamma snake eating while incubating:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...0&postcount=33

... which was one of the sources of my initial idea to go with maternal incubation and try feeding at the same time.

[Quiet Tempest]

I do know of other keepers who maternally incubate and offer food to their girls, but if you're going to feed them I would only use small feeder animals (mouse rather than rat) otherwise it's likely to make things uncomfortable or awkward for mom while brooding her clutch.

Personally, I'd worry that returning to regular feeds would throw a female out of brooding mode and she'd lose interest in her clutch.

[Quiet Tempest]

Here's the thread I was referring to:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=33496
There's a different thread that Quiet Tempest posted (it might be on a different forum) on this same snake that mentioned her trying to feed the mamma. I can't find it though.

And here's an excerpt from a book showing the mamma snake eating while incubating:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...0&postcount=33

... which was one of the sources of my initial idea to go with maternal incubation and try feeding at the same time.

I didn't realize that 2006 thread existed. I just finished reading the 20+ pages and some of the opinions there were a bit... well.. conflicting would be one word for it.. I love seeing images of brooding mothers, though, and eggs hatching within mother's coils is just awesome. Thanks for that link.

There are a few pics of females maternally incubating and maternally incubated eggs hatching on RC Reptiles' Collection page. I'm a sucker for those sorts of images. Figured I'd share the link with anyone else who enjoys them.
http://www.rcreptiles.com/collection.html