Selling You Snake Short

[thegoalie22]

The OP. He has a "red dot" under his name and I thought that was an infraction from this but nvm if its not.

@ Reptis
It hasn't gotten bad yet but I have a feeling this thread will get ugly.

[rabernet]

The OP. He has a "red dot" under his name and I thought that was an infraction from this but nvm if its not.

@ Reptis
It hasn't gotten bad yet but I have a feeling this thread will get ugly.

No - you either have green or red (or gray).

Green means that your reputation points are in the positive (reputation points users have left you)

Gray means you your reputation points are neutral

Red means that other users have neg rep'd you into the negative.

If you hover over green dots on all users, you see their reputation "status".

[Quiet Tempest]

I don't think soul is relevant, to be honest. It has nothing to do with emotions or 'feeling'. Those things occur in the brain.

I do, however, think some people sell snakes short.

They have been researched scientifically, and we can see what they are capable of from their behavior and from their brain structure.

Snakes are most certainly capable of emotions. They are not, however, capable of 'higher emotions'--the more complex emotions displayed by birds and mammals. Snakes are capable of fear, curiousity/interest, contentment/happiness, unhappiness, and anger. There's no question about it--they have the mental equipment for it, they display the behaviors associated with it--it's there.
Animals known to have emotional centers in their brains, and to display behavioral evidence of emotion: Cephalopods, fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals.
Cephalopods and some lizards 'wear their heart on their sleeve' with complex color and pattern changes corresponding to their moods, as well as other stimuli.

As for snakes' reasoning abilities--it really depends on the species. Our ball pythons are not geniuses. They really aren't very bright animals. They don't have to be, in order to be successful. Other snake species aren't quite so dim--garter and rat snakes, for example. The obvious genius among snakes is the King Cobra.
To judge intelligence, look at the animal's behavior, and what it needs to do in the wild in order to survive. Ball pythons spend most of their time hiding, and are primarily ambush predators--they wait for prey to come across their path. Snakes that are more active hunters need to be smarter, both to locate their prey, and to avoid predators as they wander.

It should be noted that, in general, snakes are the least intelligent group of reptiles. Tuatara, lizards, turtles, and crocodilians all show much higher levels intelligence much more consistently than snakes do. Still, the intelligence of animals in general is something that has been continuously underestimated since scientific research of animals first began. We are continually revising our knowledge of their mental capabilities upward.

So in that respect, I have to agree--don't sell them short. Watch and see, and you will probably be surprised some day.

Ditto.

It's fair to believe that snakes don't feel, because that's the way things are. When I first got into snakes, it was hard for me to accept after years of owning parrots and cats and dogs (oh my! ), because they all get so attached to you and you to them. Believe me, once you accept the fact that your snakes are basically on "auto pilot" it becomes a whole lot easier to understand and respect their needs.

It has been proven that snakes do not have the intellectual capacity to experience emotions as we do. Their limbic system - the part of the brain that registers emotions - is very, very basic. I'm sure that they have felt fear, and more of the baser emotions that stem from instinct, but if you are implying that snakes are capable of love, joy, sorrow, or anger then you are unfortunately wrong. As much as I'm sure we'd all like our snakes to love us as our dogs do, the fact is they don't nor will they ever... unless another 80 million years of evolution decides to change that. Some people will say that one snake or another has it's own personality. They either have a really grouchy snake, a shy one, or a really calm tempered little guy, but those observations are all just differing levels of aggression, indifference, or fear - something that is instinctual, not emotional. As far as the indifference goes, the snake doesn't see you as a threat and is just putting up with you.

Actually, the more I think about it, I would rather my snakes' emotional capacity stay the way it is. I have a feeling that if bp's or any other snake acted any other way, the appeal of them would not be the same. I like the indifferent attitude they display. I feel like if they did display emotions as other animals do, it'd be the same as owning the reptilian version of a cat.

As far as souls go, I'm afraid to touch the topic. Spiritual topics tend to get very touchy, and I'd be afraid to say something that would bite me in the bottom later...

Ditto.

In my opinion you have no right to judge people who don't have the same beliefs as you. You have no right to come on here and tell everyone that their beliefs are ignorant, because we KNOW that this has stemmed from your very IGNORANT posts about people who house their snakes in tubs.

Your snake ISN'T in its optimum environment. You've had bad sheds, and feeding refusals. Betcha if your snake felt better about it's enclosure you wouldn't have these problems. MY snakes on the other hand, have perfect sheds and never miss a meal. So please, just let this ridiculousness go.


AND AGAIN, it's about what works best for the individual snake, and the snake DOESN'T care about have pretty things to look at or realistic looking hides. They want a warm dark humid place to hide, fresh water, and a meal when they're hungry. None of this has anything to do with having a soul.

And ditto again.



As for souls. I'm an atheist so no, I do not believe my snakes have spirits/souls. Nor do I believe that any of my other pets, family members, friends or neighbors have souls. That doesn't mean I think any less of them. I love my friends and family and my snake collection and reef tank is my primary focus when I have free time nowadays. I love my snakes and reefs but that doesn't mean I'm going to start cuddling corals so that they feel better about themselves.

[BPelizabeth]

I love my snakes and reefs but that doesn't mean I'm going to start cuddling corals so that they feel better about themselves.

Oh cmon meaner!!!

[Quiet Tempest]

Oh cmon meaner!!!

lol I got a love "bite" from one of my corals once. I think I'll let them cuddle each other. You can never be sure just how toxic some of those guys are. I'll play it safe. If they grow to resent me, so be it.

[BPelizabeth]

lol I got a love "bite" from one of my corals once. I think I'll let them cuddle each other. You can never be sure just how toxic some of those guys are. I'll play it safe. If they grow to resent me, so be it.

Wow....off topic....but what happened to you?

[BuckeyeBalls]

Arisnoe-

You brag about handling your snake 2 hours a day. It doesn't enjoy or look forward to being handled. It doesn't "love" you.. It just views you as the one who picks you up.. honestly it would be fine if you never handled it.

You also brag about keeping it in a tank because you are "doing what's best for it" giving it a "proper home".. c'mon. If you really cared about your snake you would keep it in an enclosure where you could easily control temps and humidity.

Shes banned so you cant talk to her lol

[blackcrystal22]

I know she's banned and can't see this, but I'm a very spiritual person and am quite offended with her approach to 'forcing' her beliefs on others. I would never force my naturalistic/scientific/spiritual beliefs on anybody, no matter how strongly I disagreed with someone.

Science is all theory, but most theory is highly supported with experimental data, that's different.
Belief in souls is something I BELIEVE in. It is an untestable hypothesis at the moment, not a theory. It has no evidence backing it up, it is purely an opinion.

SO for her to say:

Is that fair to believe that?

In my opinion that kind of belief is just as ignorant and destructive as those who believe snakes are evil and devils and such.

Beliefs are not ignorant. They are opinions, and you are forcing YOUR beliefs on people!!! And GOSH DARN IT it bugs me!
You and people who act like you are the reason why people look so badly at our related religion. UGH.

[BPelizabeth]

wow she was banned?? What happened....I mean her stuff was ridiculous...and annoying I might add.....but what happened for her to get banned?

[musicalKeyes]

wow she was banned?? What happened....I mean her stuff was ridiculous...and annoying I might add.....but what happened for her to get banned?

She made a fake person to post under, that reptis person? That was her.

I'm just glaaaad it's over.