How Often Do You Handle Your Snakes?

[Arsinoe]

Originally Posted by David802
On your high horse again ic.....

@ Arsinoe = Because snakes lack a limbic system they are physically unable to recognize feelings like love. Your snake does not love you, nor does it like to be handled by you twice a day for an hour at a time, it is not disappointed if you don't have time for it. In all actuality it is less stressed and happier when you leave it alone, handling a snake for an hour or two a day is only going to stress it out..... In case I didn't make my underlying implication clear..... YOU ARE A BAD PET OWNER BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS OF YOUR ANIMAL AND ALL OF YOUR ANIMALS SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY UNTIL YOU CAN LEARN TO PROPERLY CARE FOR THEM!!!!!

... P.S. How's it feel to be treated like an inferior because of how you treat your animals?


Re:Charlie & Lucy

Guys, I think David was trying to show Arsinoe how she's making us feel about how we treat our snakes. Yes, it was harsh and bold of him to say that. But, it's harsh and down right rude the way she is talking to all of us. Some of you may say that David's reaction was rude, but I think it's to be expected from someone who is insulted, or feeling insulted, by someone else who doesn't know him and is judging him, and all of us, for the way we treat our animals.
==============

First of all I don't have an inferiority complex that makes me act in a manner that requires me to try to gang up on someone that they don't agree with.

You know science is not the end all be all of knowledge...How many times have they pronounced something only to recant it later. How many lives have they destroyed with their so called safe discoveries and inventions. So when you say snakes can't feel because they lack some sort of a 'system' I will take that with a grain of salt. They may have another way they 'feel' science hasn't figured out yet.

Some of you disagreed about my letting Alexander see and touch the other fur family members when I got him. You were wrong. He is the calmest snake ever invented around them now. He doesn't get defensive when one flies right in front of his face to get on a shelf. He doesn't spaz when one comes right to his face to have a look. When my oldest kitty decided out of the blue to swat him on the head, he didn't stike back or roll into a ball. He's quite fearless....In a good way.

I will maintain that given the opportunaty a snake can become more than what humans have allowed them to be.............But then the handler/owner/caretaker has to be able to feel and empathize themselves to understand other lifeforms..........If they can't.........Is that a jab...Oh Yes!

[WesleyTF]

Originally Posted by David802
On your high horse again ic.....

@ Arsinoe = Because snakes lack a limbic system they are physically unable to recognize feelings like love. Your snake does not love you, nor does it like to be handled by you twice a day for an hour at a time, it is not disappointed if you don't have time for it. In all actuality it is less stressed and happier when you leave it alone, handling a snake for an hour or two a day is only going to stress it out..... In case I didn't make my underlying implication clear..... YOU ARE A BAD PET OWNER BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS OF YOUR ANIMAL AND ALL OF YOUR ANIMALS SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY UNTIL YOU CAN LEARN TO PROPERLY CARE FOR THEM!!!!!

... P.S. How's it feel to be treated like an inferior because of how you treat your animals?


Re:Charlie & Lucy

Guys, I think David was trying to show Arsinoe how she's making us feel about how we treat our snakes. Yes, it was harsh and bold of him to say that. But, it's harsh and down right rude the way she is talking to all of us. Some of you may say that David's reaction was rude, but I think it's to be expected from someone who is insulted, or feeling insulted, by someone else who doesn't know him and is judging him, and all of us, for the way we treat our animals.
==============

First of all I don't have an inferiority complex that makes me act in a manner that requires me to try to gang up on someone that they don't agree with.

You know science is not the end all be all of knowledge...How many times have they pronounced something only to recant it later. How many lives have they destroyed with their so called safe discoveries and inventions. So when you say snakes can't feel because they lack some sort of a 'system' I will take that with a grain of salt. They may have another way they 'feel' science hasn't figured out yet.

Some of you disagreed about my letting Alexander see and touch the other fur family members when I got him. You were wrong. He is the calmest snake ever invented around them now. He doesn't get defensive when one flies right in front of his face to get on a shelf. He doesn't spaz when one comes right to his face to have a look. When my oldest kitty decided out of the blue to swat him on the head, he didn't stike back or roll into a ball. He's quite fearless....In a good way.

I will maintain that given the opportunaty a snake can become more than what humans have allowed them to be.............But then the handler/owner/caretaker has to be able to feel and empathize themselves to understand other lifeforms..........If they can't.........Is that a jab...Oh Yes!

ugh. I HATE it when people try to say that about science. Science is not the "be all, end all," and that is the POINT. It is striving towards bettering itself. Scientific principles are never just disregarded; they are modified and adapted. If something can be completely dis-proven, it was never science to begin with. Take something like "the Earth is flat." To a very VERY good approximation, it is. In our everyday lives, it is, for all intents and purposes, flat. Scientific ideas must be retro-actively consistent (new principles reduce to old principles under the right circumstances).

Science itself has never destroyed or saved lives. It just doesn't work that way. People abuse technology that arose from an understanding of scientific principles, sure--just like you're abusing the millions of scientific man-hours it took to advance technology to the computer age to complain about people keeping a solitary animal in a container that is more appropriate and has a larger foot-print than what you find aesthetically pleasing.

If you don't like science, get off the internet, stop eating any sort of cultured grain or filtered water and see how long it takes before you're begging for the advancements that you take for granted. Please, PLEASE think twice about what you're saying. Right now you're just sounding foolish and ignorant. We all care a lot for our animals; in fact, that's why many of us moved our animals into "tupperware." Sure, a snake can be trained to tolerate being swatted by a cat, but that doesn't mean that that is appropriate or enjoyable for the snake. STOP ANTHROPOMORPHIZING YOUR ANIMALS.

[Arsinoe]

ugh. I HATE it when people try to say that about science. Science is not the "be all, end all," and that is the POINT. It is striving towards bettering itself. Scientific principles are never just disregarded; they are modified and adapted. If something can be completely dis-proven, it was never science to begin with. Take something like "the Earth is flat." To a very VERY good approximation, it is. In our everyday lives, it is, for all intents and purposes, flat. Scientific ideas must be retro-actively consistent (new principles reduce to old principles under the right circumstances).

Science itself has never destroyed or saved lives. It just doesn't work that way. People abuse technology that arose from an understanding of scientific principles, sure--just like you're abusing the millions of scientific man-hours it took to advance technology to the computer age to complain about people keeping a solitary animal in a container that is more appropriate and has a larger foot-print than what you find aesthetically pleasing.

If you don't like science, get off the internet, stop eating any sort of cultured grain or filtered water and see how long it takes before you're begging for the advancements that you take for granted. Please, PLEASE think twice about what you're saying. Right now you're just sounding foolish and ignorant. We all care a lot for our animals; in fact, that's why many of us moved our animals into "tupperware." Sure, a snake can be trained to tolerate being swatted by a cat, but that doesn't mean that that is appropriate or enjoyable for the snake. STOP ANTHROPOMORPHIZING YOUR ANIMALS.

So science doesn't destroy?..........If it creates a concept to be abused by others, does that absolve them as to their join copability for the results of their ideas and concepts???.......NO!

If you believe a snake is 100% solitary...devoid of feelings....etc. Then turn them lose to be a snake then and stop trapping them in a human world.

[WesleyTF]

SCIENCE DOES NOT CREATE CONCEPTS! Science is a process of trying to uncover the fundamental laws of Nature... Fundamental laws that have never changed. NEVER. NEVER. The culpability lies within the individuals who abuse power, not science. Science does not destroy, although nature does tend towards entropy... But I digress--arguing thermodynamics is way beyond the scope of this conversation.

Furthermore, I don't believe a snake is 100% solitary(never said so, either), but I do believe you're abusing them by subjecting them to stressful situations until they learn to cope. I think we should meet the snake on its terms--make them feel safe and comfortable and interact with them in a manner consistent with their natural instincts.

[David802]

ROFL OMG, seriously? THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for yet again proving with out a shadow of a doubt that you are to innept, arrogant, ignorant, and out ride dumb! In what way do you think you know better then the thousands of DOCTORS that have spent there entire lives studying the science of the brain!

Here are some terms to google that helps support my point. (terms that I know you are to arrogant to ever consider looking up, thats a jab as well by the way.)

Brain science
R-complex
the Triune brain Model
Paul D Maclean
Forebrain
midbrain
hindbrain
Limbic System

The science of the limbic system is not some "crack pot theory" as your describing it and the fact that you're trying to argue against it is just more and more proof that you should not only not be aloud to have animals, but you shouldn't be aloud to have kids either. You are obviously to innept to care for anything but yourself and I pitty anything that relys on you in any way (theres another jab for you).

As far as my "infiriority complex" goes how can you even imply that such a thing exists in the same breath that you say (to summarize) the limbic system does not exist, being that the limbic system is what would handle the FEELING of infiriority? I believe your direct quote would be "So when you say snakes can't feel because they lack some sort of a 'system' I will take that with a grain of salt." What you're essentially saying in that quote is that you think that snakes have developed some magic section of the brain that controlls feelings with out actually having the section of the brain that DEVELOPES CONTROLLS AND RECOGNISES FEELINGS! Is this another part of your magic limbic ball python morph the one that talks, and tap dances?

Its a good thing that your to innept to take care of your pets! Now I wont feel bad when the scientists find out about this and come take your snake so they can study it.

To end this statement I'll quote WesleyTF because he delivered it so elequintly! "STOP ANTHROPOMORPHIZING YOUR ANIMALS."

theres another word for you to google because I'll garantee you have no idea what it means either.... theres another jab for you.


Edit : I'd also like to take a second and thank WesleyTF for touching on a subject that I really can not argue about with out offending everyone on the board. Thanks welsey for explaining something I didn't want to.

[rabernet]

Some of you disagreed about my letting Alexander see and touch the other fur family members when I got him. You were wrong. He is the calmest snake ever invented around them now. He doesn't get defensive when one flies right in front of his face to get on a shelf. He doesn't spaz when one comes right to his face to have a look. When my oldest kitty decided out of the blue to swat him on the head, he didn't stike back or roll into a ball. He's quite fearless....In a good way.

You have one ball python. You can't compare him to other ball pythons, because you haven't had the experience with others to presume that your Alexander is extraordinary in his behaviors, because he's not. I know he's extraordinary to you - and that's awesome!

I've not "conditioned" any of my ball pythons to be comfortable around my dog and two cats, and yet, when I'm taking them out to clean a tub, none of them are particularly bothered by the cat that reaches out and despite my best efforts, will on occasion get a quick swipe in - they don't strike back or roll into a ball.

They don't spaz with the activity of the dog and two cats, and I've never "worked" with them to be that way - it's simply their nature to be a calm snake. Sure there are exceptions in the ball python world that are exceptionally shy, but I don't think you can pat yourself on the back that you've done something by "conditioning" him that he wouldn't have done on his own without your forcing him to interact with your other animals.

Every behavior that I've seen you attribute to your unique methodology of caring for Alexander is not out of the norm for my 50 ball pythons that I've not used your methodology for.

[David802]

I also think bigguns needs to write another canned response about what the snakes think about being handled!

Thats right BG I'm calling on you for another excelent canned response.

[Breadbug500]

How often i handle my snakes depends on the type of snake im dealing with. For example, i'll leave a ball python alone for the most part, as its a very shy snake. When i start getting into bigger snakes, however, i'll handle them more frequently to keep them nice and tame. I came to this decision after doing research on snakes i want to get, and even through further research on the snakes i currently own. You never can learn too much it seems

[BuckeyeBalls]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for yet again proving with out a shadow of a doubt that you are to innept, arrogant, ignorant, and out ride dumb! In what way do you think you know better then the thousands of DOCTORS that have spent there entire lives studying the science of the brain!

[WakoNako]

We handle our BP maybe once or twice a week. Sometimes less, rarely more.

Whenever we do handle him, its for no more than 20 minutes and often we'll just let him go where he wants and keep an eye on him. I have no other pets to worry about gettin him, but my fiancee feels that, even though BPs are shy, we should handle him as she is becoming a teacher and intends to put him in her classroom