I have $20k to spend and I need help!!!

[Jason Bowden]

Just so no one bashes my opinion too hard.
I have some hets in my breeding program. I wish they were the visual morph. Then all the babies would have the desired paint job!

[Dave Green]

People overreact to price drops of morphs. Such drops should be expected in this type of market. For example, I invested in a newer morph approx. 4 years ago. In 2008 the price dropped to 1/4 of what the price was two years earlier. Sounds like a bad "investment" right?? Well, I produced 11 not including the hets. I made my money back plus some and I still have the adults to breed. I hesitate using the word "investment" but this isn't a bad way to make money doing something you love. Make good decisions, learn from your mistakes and enjoy.

[JennM]

There's sooo many options. Really depends on what you like best/your goals.

BUT...
If I had $20K to start a business, I'd be buying super double co-doms. I love Sterlings! You could also go with super-blasts, killerbees, x-X-leucistics, etc. With these you will of course still get lower end morphs but no normals. Keep a few select animals each year. In two-three years you could end up with those quad morphs. Expand with the money you get from these.

And as mentioned, you can't go wrong with pieds. Clowns are also a favorite of mine(hopefully I'll get one this year, fingers crossed). The super discos and paintballs are pretty neat too; however I don't know what these cost at the moment.

I'd also get a hidden gene woma to start working into some projects. Gotta love those infernos and enchinfernos!

***Big thing here for me is the quality. Shop around and take your time. There are tons of animals out there. I'll spend more $ on a younger quality animal than I would an "eh" breeder size animal any day.***

Just make sure you can sell to the average person. If you get a bunch of $20k plus animals and no lower ends you won't make as much. Selling 10 @ $2K just seems easier. Of course, this is from the point of view of a 22yo that's just really getting into the whole breeding side of things. You have to take what sounds best for you and figure out what works. Good luck!

[Big Gunns]

There's sooo many options. Really depends on what you like best/your goals.

BUT...
If I had $20K to start a business, I'd be buying super double co-doms. I love Sterlings! You could also go with super-blasts, killerbees, x-X-leucistics, etc. With these you will of course still get lower end morphs but no normals. Keep a few select animals each year. In two-three years you could end up with those quad morphs. Expand with the money you get from these.

And as mentioned, you can't go wrong with pieds. Clowns are also a favorite of mine(hopefully I'll get one this year, fingers crossed). The super discos and paintballs are pretty neat too; however I don't know what these cost at the moment.

I'd also get a hidden gene woma to start working into some projects. Gotta love those infernos and enchinfernos!

***Big thing here for me is the quality. Shop around and take your time. There are tons of animals out there. I'll spend more $ on a younger quality animal than I would an "eh" breeder size animal any day.***

Just make sure you can sell to the average person. If you get a bunch of $20k plus animals and no lower ends you won't make as much. Selling 10 @ $2K just seems easier. Of course, this is from the point of view of a 22yo that's just really getting into the whole breeding side of things. You have to take what sounds best for you and figure out what works. Good luck!

Funny thing about that "hidden gene" Woma. It's so well "hidden" nobody seems able to find it.

[JennM]

LOL Right BG! Have to pick one up from NERD.

I was researching them a bit a few weeks ago. Don't they look different than the normal womas? Pattern wise?

[PurplePython]

People overreact to price drops of morphs. Such drops should be expected in this type of market. For example, I invested in a newer morph approx. 4 years ago. In 2008 the price dropped to 1/4 of what the price was two years earlier. Sounds like a bad "investment" right?? Well, I produced 11 not including the hets. I made my money back plus some and I still have the adults to breed. I hesitate using the word "investment" but this isn't a bad way to make money doing something you love. Make good decisions, learn from your mistakes and enjoy.

Very good post. A lot of people seam to be forgetting your going to produce plenty of offspring to sell. So even if these snakes prices do drop, your going to most likely make back the difference within 1-2 clutches.

[Kysenia]

I'm not sure what you have atm, or where you are at........but my recs would be to ask the following questions.

1. Do I want 1-2 elite morphs? Elite are nice but your market base is minimal...how many young adults in this hobby passion have 4k to drop on a snake? Most will come up with 500-1000? Just a thought? When you are in business you need to have supply that covers the masses....just my opinion
2. Or do I want consistent, base morphs that most need to build?
3. Do I have appropriate caging /husbandry? Hold up to time?
4. Marketing?
5. Have I considered tax impact on sales and what that will be?
6. Base funds for long term feeding and vet bills?

I could go on, but if I had 20 k i would not go to the top morphs, i would buy below and create the above......just my opinion...

[EmberBall]

If I was you, I would buy the least number of snakes I could, and the highest quality and most sought after Morphs. I would not buy just double Co Doms because they are pretty easy to make. I would be looking at some of the new morphs out there that have very few people working on them: Ghi, Paintball, and to a lesser extent, the Desert or Desert Ghosts. I would also buy Super Stripe ingredients and probably Crystal ingredients. A Bannana would not be a bad animal to get either. If you are spending that kind of money, cash, I would ask for some extras too. For example, if you buy a Desert Spider male, I would ask the breeder to throw in a Pastel female or two, or Lesser female, or something to sweeten the deal in your favor. Doing trades, you might not be able to do it, but spending cash, you should be able to pick up at least 20% of your $20K in free animals.

Dave

[jimbus]

If you have 20K lying around purely for investment purposes, I hate to say it but ball pythons probably aren't your smartest investment. How about putting it into a couple nice blue chip stocks where instead of having to continually dump more money and time into husbandry, food, vet bills, etc. you can sit back and collect dividend checks and watch your investment grow. Just saying...unless you are doing it because you love snakes 20k worth, i think you might regret the decision in a couple years.

[Big Gunns]

You are forgetting something BG's rookie fan. Prices may go down on the animals, but you're not just letting them sit there...you're breeding them. You have to take the babies produced from the animal that dropped in value into account when considering whether it was a good investment or not.

Recessives will hold their value longer, but Co doms will see a faster return. If you don't want to see your snakes value seem to drop overnight....buy recessive. It will however take you a leeetle longer to see results.

Whatever you may be looking for though Ralphy....BG just might happen to know where you can find it.

Very good post. A lot of people seam to be forgetting your going to produce plenty of offspring to sell. So even if these snakes prices do drop, your going to most likely make back the difference within 1-2 clutches.

As you can see from BG's first post on this thread, he did not "forget".

If you have 20K lying around purely for investment purposes, I hate to say it but ball pythons probably aren't your smartest investment. How about putting it into a couple nice blue chip stocks where instead of having to continually dump more money and time into husbandry, food, vet bills, etc. you can sit back and collect dividend checks and watch your investment grow. Just saying...unless you are doing it because you love snakes 20k worth, i think you might regret the decision in a couple years.

BG has got to call you out. BG is gonna be mean here, but he feels it needs to be said. Big Gunns has seen many of these threads over the years and he has seen this same answer over and over by people who shouldn't be giving it. Unfortunately for you Jimmy, you listed the snakes you have in your signature. Now BG doubts you just sold off you large breeding collection, so how can you possibly be any way shape or form qualified to give any good advice on this thread? Maybe you have a good friend that's lost money, but BG doubts it. Sorry Jimmy, BG is kinda tired and cranky and your reply is a pet peeve of his. If you want a free male Pastel for BG picking on yah...he owes yah one.

Here's the deal people. Ball Python breeding is nowhere near what it was just a few short years ago, but there is still money to be made if you invest wisely. BG doesn't think many people are gonna get rich in this business anymore, but you can make money. A lot more money than collecting "dividend checks". You may need a leeetle luck though. You just never know if someone is gonna go Joey Bananas(Morph King) with the project you invested in. This is always a possibility.

There is a saying that most people have heard. "The greater the risk, the greater the reward". This is very true with snake breeding. It is no coincidence that the people who have invested the most(first), are making the most money in this business. You must invest wisely though(more than ever now), and you really need to do your homework and do things right. However, even an idiot can breed Balls which is fully evident by some of the people BG meets in this business, so most of you are in luck.

You really need to decide when you need to see a return on your investment also. If you need it quickly, you probably want to invest in a different snake than if you don't. This may mean you make less money in the long term. BG will admit though. This business is very volatile right now and there are many variables that can decide whether or not you make money. This list includes the jealous weasel(Joey Bananas and his ilk) that wants revenge on the big breeder, or the broke Banker that needs to pay his mortgage. You just never know what can hurt your investment. BG does believe there are many "safe" investments that you will make a lot more money than those "dividend checks" though. You'll just need to decide what kind of risk you want to take.

One last tip. Don't listen to any advice on this thread. Talk to people who are not trying to sell you anything like some of us may be, and make a pros and cons list of everything you've learned....then go out and buy.....wisely. If you just go out and spend that money on the first thing that somebody has sold you on as a "good investment"....chances are it's not gonna be.