Difference in size until you can put them together?

[shinobi602]

Hello, I had a quick question. I have a large 80 gallon tank and have 2 adults in it, 1 male and 1 female, and I'm wondering what's the right size until I can put my other two BPs in there with them.

It's not recommended I've read here on the site, and I know snakes are mostly solitary animals, ball pythons are no exception, but it's a huge cage and tons of hides and separate space for all. I've kept my 2 adults together for 2+ years now.

I know I shouldn't put them together if there's a huge size difference, so I'd just like to get an idea. My 2 adults are a little over 4 feet and my 2 babies are about 1.5 feet long. Here's a picture that shows it a little, what do you guys recommend?:

[Danounet]

Placing 2+ males together is a bad Idea. The male(s) that ends up being dominated will be very stressed out and most likely go off-feed. If there is an infection, it would spread. Etc etc..

[Kaorte]

The reasons we recommend keeping them in separate enclosures don't just have to do with size difference. Cannibalism is not unheard of, but it is rare.

The biggest issue in my opinion is unwanted breeding. It looks like those two bigger ones are around breeding weight and they will breed. Are you ready for eggs? Do you have space for the babies if you happen to get eggs?

Another issue is the spread of infection, specifically respiratory infections. This is spread very quickly especially when they share a water bowl. If they were simply separated, one snake would be sick and that would only be one vet bill, rather than 4.

Whose poo is whose? It is actually very important to know when the snakes use the bathroom and how often. If they are all together there is no accurate way to tell. If one of them has internal parasites that causes a messy poo, you would have to treat ALL of them for internal parasites.


In my opinion, an 80g is not for any ball python, not even 4. It is just too large of a space for such a shy, scared snake. These animals like spaces they can barely fit into, not wide open cages. They honestly are so much happier in small enclosures. With that amount of snakes, I would really think about building yourself a rack like this one I made here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90564

This is one I made last year for my snakes. It holds 6 adults or 12 juveniles or any combination of that. If you want to argue that "you like to see your snakes" keep in mind that ball pythons are secretive animals that RARELY leave their hides. That is just how they are. I would find some other animal to put in the 80g and move all the snakes to a rack system.

[OzarkMountainBalls]

Also with 4 BP's in one enclosure it will be very hard to moniter bowel movements, fedding, ect. 2 are easier to keep track of but still is not recomended. Just my 2 cents!

[Animals As Leaders]

Hello, I had a quick question. I have a large 80 gallon tank and have 2 adults in it, 1 male and 1 female, and I'm wondering what's the right size until I can put my other two BPs in there with them.

It's not recommended I've read here on the site, and I know snakes are mostly solitary animals, ball pythons are no exception, but it's a huge cage and tons of hides and separate space for all. I've kept my 2 adults together for 2+ years now.

I know I shouldn't put them together if there's a huge size difference, so I'd just like to get an idea. My 2 adults are a little over 4 feet and my 2 babies are about 1.5 feet long. Here's a picture that shows it a little, what do you guys recommend?:

UMMMMM.....


I wouldn't house 4 snakes together ever....

I would get the idea out of your head now, I don't see anyone on here supporting this idea I know I don't. Why would you want to do this I don't get it? If you know they are solitary animals then why cramp there style and stress them? Any kind of competition can cause issues for the animal(s). Plus there are many options in terms of keeping a lot of snakes in a smaller area. If you have room for an 80 gallon tank then you should have room for a rack as well...

PS. Read Karote's post verrrry informative and to the point.

[shinobi602]

Hi all, thanks for the responses. Well, first it's 3 females and one male, and I was under the impression that certain conditions need to be met for any actual fertilization to occur, I mean really specific conditions. I've read what you have to do to get your snakes to start breeding and I don't really go that far, I just keep them as pets.

A few guys I know told me that unless certain conditions are met, they may mate, even several times in the breeding season, but almost guaranteed won't have eggs.

I live in an apartment and don't have much room for a rack at all, even the tank I have is big for my room lol. Don't worry though, they're not stressed out, I have tons of hides in there, and the adults are always in them. The hides are tight and they always love to cramp up inside them, I don't keep them in wide open spaces. It's really not as big as you guys think, the tank is probably around 5.5 feet long...

About R.I though, what are some causes of it if you mind me asking?

[Jimi_Reptile]

I wouldn't put the two males and females in the same tank. I wouldn't even put the single pair in a 80 gal.

Putting the male in with the female for more than a few days can cause over-breeding and extra stress that can lead to off feed, an vent infection, or even over-stressed fatality. In a tank that big, you could hold one ball python in that tank and it would be over-stressed. You have to take into consideration that in the wild, they live in holes underground and like to feel secure. I had a baby ball python that wouldn't eat for a long time because it was in a 10 gallon. It has numerous hides and I didn't want to put her in a bin (she was a very nice display animal) and after I finally moved her to a 16 qt bin she started eating like no tomorrow.

No matter how long you keep snakes together with no conflict, there can always be a first time, and that first time can also be the last, for one or both of your snakes.

Another conflict would be you have two males in with two females, but the two males are different morphs, so you would have no idea what female bred with what male, how many times were they locked up, and when to look for ovulation and when will they drop eggs.

If I were you, I would first get a small rack system and then breed those snakes! they look amazing!

[Animals As Leaders]

RI can be cause by low temps.

Make sure the ambient temps are 78-83ish

And I am aware of how big the tank is, and you CAN fit a rack if you have this tank set up. I am perfectly aware of dimensions, I own lots of aquariums myself. And you say its 3 females and one male? So your going to have 3 clutches instead of one? Did you know one male can impregnate up to 6+ females a season? Also, its not that hard to induce breeding. If your temps are just a little shy of 75ish this could be enough to induce them into breeding...This is really not an intelligent idea man. Especially with how easy it is to make a rack. I would personally like to see your setup, being that you say how well its setup. You should let us all critique it so you can get a better assessment of the situation.

Also, I don't understand why you would take the risk of harming your snakes? You seem to be someone who researches things, but kind of believes what they want. The people on here know there stuff, and are not trying to make things worse. Sounds to me you invested a lot in this tank, and all the accessories and your just trying to make it work but its not so just use the tank for some fish or something lol

[OhhWatALoser]

also on the breeding thing those conditions are only suggestions to help the process. my breeding season for all 3 of my females, I did nothing and all 3 have locked up, one im pretty sure is about to do her post lay shed.

It went female, meet male, and they were locked up in less than an hour.

everything else I could say has already been said up above. can you get away with it, sure, plenty of people do. but once one problem pops up, your pretty much screwed. your going to save yourself alot of stress, money in the long run, and possibly your animals lives by just making or buying a rack and doing things that way.

[j_h_smith]

Hi all, thanks for the responses. Well, first it's 3 females and one male, and I was under the impression that certain conditions need to be met for any actual fertilization to occur, I mean really specific conditions. I've read what you have to do to get your snakes to start breeding and I don't really go that far, I just keep them as pets.

A few guys I know told me that unless certain conditions are met, they may mate, even several times in the breeding season, but almost guaranteed won't have eggs.

Okay, now lets get this straight. You ask a husbandry question. You get many answers here telling not to do what you intended to do, with explanation as well. But you come back with, "These guys said this". well listen to your "guys" not us. If you want qualified answers, please don't dismiss them by telling us that "some guys" told you it would be okay.

I live in an apartment and don't have much room for a rack at all, even the tank I have is big for my room lol. Don't worry though, they're not stressed out, I have tons of hides in there, and the adults are always in them. The hides are tight and they always love to cramp up inside them, I don't keep them in wide open spaces. It's really not as big as you guys think, the tank is probably around 5.5 feet long...

Again, you were told not to do this and even after many responded to your question with "DON'T DO IT", you still make excuses for why you're going to do it. If you can fit a 5.5 ft tank in your apartment, a rack would be easy. But that's not the answer you're looking for. Stop asking questions, then denying the asnwers you're getting. It's not polite and it won't make you many friends here.

About R.I though, what are some causes of it if you mind me asking?

I think your "guys" should have been able to explain this to you. If we tell you, will you believe it?

Sorry for being hard on you, but you ask questions, get answers that don't fit your ideas, then dismiss the information you're getting here.


Not Cool!
Jim Smith