new sav

[redstormlax12]

Allergenic: After reading through the numerous bashings you've had to endure for stating your beliefs in caring for one's animals I must apologize for most of humanity. Yes we live in a "disposable" society but you are not alone. I've dealt with people that had the thought "A vet bill for my corn is like $100. A new corn is $40. Forget the vet". It's sad but true. I on the other hand spent over $4000 at the vet for one of my tegus... I agree with your views; you are not alone. I find it's usually the older, more experienced keepers who share our views; these kids with 5 yrs. Of experience think they know it all, have seen it all; just because they've owned one of everything in those five years and currently have one or two animals - probably in a tub/rack system.

If you didnt see when you read through the thread, its allergenic that made the first rude comment that implied that balls just got rid of his animals when he was bored and wanted the new fad. Dont appologize to him. Im glad you spent that much on your tegu and i would do the same. I would spend all the money I could ever scrounge up to pay bills for a sick suffering animal.

But to get to the part where the kids with 5 years experience think they know everything. HA! I am 17, and just started keeping reptiles 2 years ago. I have always been deeply interested in animals, especially reptiles and am now going to college next year to a Vet program with a scholarship in hand. I am very knowledgeable and how dare you say just because i am new to the hobby think i believe i know everything. I learn something new about some species everyday through research in books, magazines or the internet. Do not believe you are all mighty because you are older. And you think its wrong to keep a few animals in a tub/rack system? Why? I have three geckos, a BCI, a BCO, a BP in a rack while i have my SD and JCP in custom enclosure with new ones on the way for the boas. My animals are healthy and taken care of in the rack.

Just because you are older does not mean you are smarter or really in anyway above me or any younger keepers. Great on you to make that statement and put down a whole community of young keepers. Great idea and great manners.

I entered into this conversation because i believed what allergenic said was extremely disrespectful and out of line. They could have at least gone about it in a more polite way, instead of assuming balls was an irresponsible owner who believed his animals just objects.

The community of this hobby is extremely welcoming and very polite. But the remark you said was complete ignorance. You managed to put down all the young people in this community in one statement. Great job.

[allergenic]

But to get to the part where the kids with 5 years experience think they know everything. HA! I am 17, and just started keeping reptiles 2 years ago.

Hoo boy. I remember being seventeen and thinking I had all the answers. When I hit 29 I realized that all those years, my parents had been right. I'm not looking forward to my son reaching 17, I know we're going to have to go through that all again.

[musicalKeyes]

I'm Nineteen. I realize that many of you have several years on me, and realize that many of you have more years of experience on me as well. However, it's absolutely wrong to assume that means I don't have experience, or don't know what I'm doing, and it is wrong to assume that about anyone else. I absolutely see your point of view about reptiles being thrown away, however the rudeness with which allergenic first commented was the cause of my entering into the argument. I volunteer at my local shelter and know as well as anyone else how carelessly animals are thrown away. I've also spent almost 600 dollars getting a bladder stone removed from a guinea pig, and would spend any amount of money on all of my animals, from my dogs to my 3 inch long Grass Snakes, if they were in need of medical care. I also don't have any of my snakes in a "tub/rack system." One of my favorite parts of owning animals is giving them large, well planted, perfect enclosures.

I realize there are irresponsible keepers out there, but please, don't judge all of us young ones on those few. We make mistakes, but if we don't start young, when will we start? And you can only help by giving your opinions with patience and kindness, not anger or sarcasm. Keeping reptiles and amphibians is subject to each individual's belief of how those animals should be kept. I respect all of your opinions, even though some may not be my own. I just believe that you should do the same.

[allergenic]

however the rudeness with which allergenic first commented was the cause of my entering into the argument. I volunteer at my local shelter and know as well as anyone else how carelessly animals are thrown away.

My bedside manner might not be the best, but take your feelings for cast off animals from the shelter, add 14 years to it, and you'll see there's some snowballed passion for animals behind the initial rudeness.

I realize there are irresponsible keepers out there, but please, don't judge all of us young ones on those few.

So far I didn't get the sense anyone was. I think Chris was saying that the respect toward animals viewpoint is simply more likely to evolve with age.

We make mistakes, but if we don't start young, when will we start? And you can only help by giving your opinions with patience and kindness, not anger or sarcasm.

Agreed.

"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."

Also my favorite quote, from my favorite book read as a child. I got the opportunity to translate the original text in grade school. It's oddly quite fitting to this discussion.

Speaking of the OP, any updated pics of the Bosc?

[musicalKeyes]

Unfortunately when typing, no sense of how the words are said can be had, only the words themselves. I was merely commenting on the apparent assumption in earlier posts that younger keepers are not experienced or responsible. I am sure that with age will come only a stronger passion and commitment to the animals I keep, but I also realize that in some cases, being responsible is having to give up an animal you love so that it can be taken care of to the extent that it deserves. I'm just thankful there are people who are willing to argue so strongly about reptiles, and animals in general, after the way I've seen many treated.

Allergenic, it takes a good person to apologize, even if your posts were taken the wrong way, and yes, you do catch more flies with honey, and more willing listeners as well

[mumps]

Sorry if my post was misunderstood. I didn't say all young keepers think they know it all, but I did say that there are a lot of them that think they do. I used to be that way as well. But like it or not, actual experience is a lot more educational than reading. You can read all you like about taming a nasty retic, or anaconda, or Nile monitor, but until you have actually done it you know absolutely nothing about the subject. You might be able to go into it with a better idea of how to do it, but that's it.

Chris

[Nadamamasboy]

Unfortunately when typing, no sense of how the words are said can be had, only the words themselves.

Exactly. There's no inflection. It's like me walking up to my best friend and saying 'Jacka$$!' -he knows I'm joking around from my tone of voice. If I was to type the same thing in an email, he might take it the wrong way.

And as Mumps mentioned, you don't gain experience from reading up on something or watching YouTube, although you can gain insight. Watching a video of a nasty monitor taking a bite out of someone is one thing, being the guy bitten in the video is totally different.

I never could have dreamt of having these resources at my disposal when I was a young lad. The ability to learn from the collective experience of you all is amazing! There are some painful mistakes I may have had the insight to avoid; although the experiences did help me in other ways.

Quite frankly, there are generations of us on this and most internet forums, and we need to realize we all have different views and opinions. The optimism of youth and the wisdom of maturity both have something to offer each other. Take what you can from this open format with a grain of salt, mix it with your own insight and experience and hopefully we can all learn from each other along the way. We may agree to disagree but there's no reason to get vindictive about it.

Cheers to you all

[redstormlax12]

Hoo boy. I remember being seventeen and thinking I had all the answers. When I hit 29 I realized that all those years, my parents had been right. I'm not looking forward to my son reaching 17, I know we're going to have to go through that all again.

I never claimed i had all the answers. I admited that i dont know everything and i admitted a learned a new fact everyday.

As for experience being superior to reading, i must agree. I could never learn the habbits, actions, and bluffs that my animals put on through just words.