The good 'ol blue eyed lucy complex

[Royal Morphz]

As it appears to me(again I'm just making theories at this point) the het daddy gene is more of a Dilute hidden gene, that only becomes apparent when bred with one of the luecy complex genes. So I tried to make a connection between the "special" and the "het daddy" gene possibly being one in the same. As far as I know, special's have not been crossed with lessers, and het daddy hasn't been crossed with mojo. So I can't make the call, but this is my input on it. It's not to say that my statement was wrong, as it's really just a hypothesis. Anyway, just thought I would back myself, so I'm no longer seen as a stupid noob who doesn't know what he's talking about. ~Caylan.S.~

The bolded section is wrong I posted it before BHB has done the Special to Lesser making a Crystal that looks a bit different from Tom Baker's Mojo to Special Crystal.

[Inugohan]

Really? Fair enough, thank you for correcting me. Now if only I was able to see it haha. Thanks again, sorry if I through anyone off. ~Caylan.S.~

[OhhWatALoser]

As it appears to me(again I'm just making theories at this point) the het daddy gene is more of a Dilute hidden gene, that only becomes apparent when bred with one of the luecy complex genes. So I tried to make a connection between the "special" and the "het daddy" gene possibly being one in the same. As far as I know, special's have not been crossed with lessers, and het daddy hasn't been crossed with mojo. So I can't make the call, but this is my input on it. It's not to say that my statement was wrong, as it's really just a hypothesis. Anyway, just thought I would back myself, so I'm no longer seen as a stupid noob who doesn't know what he's talking about. ~Caylan.S.~

text from ralph..."when I was breeding "platty sib" x "platty sib" trying to isolate the "hypo platty gene".......those breedings produced 4 clutches with a total of 19 normal looking offspring produced....."

so unless he missed on the super 19 times in a row, the special gene has a visual super form. the "hypo platty gene" as he calls it appears to not have a visual super form, if it has one at all.

[RandyRemington]

Of course they should be called whatever Ralph decides to call them but I did read once about a "dilute" mutation in rats that only showed up with other mutations so for a while I was calling the hiddens dilute.

I think the normal looking baby from RDR's platy X platy breeding was a female. By the allele theory it should be a known homozygous hidden (there where probably others in the nineteen 33% chance homozygous hiddens mentioned). She might be close to breeding size by now or a homozygous hidden male may have been identified from the earlier pairings.

Would be cool to be able to produce clutches of 100% platy. It would be sort of like the superstripe combo in that it would take a dissimilar pair to produce eggs 100% chance for the combo. For the best platy odds normal looking homozygous hidden X lesser\lesser BEL = 100% platy. For a super superstripe project homozygous specter\whirlwind X ivory = 100% superstripe. You couldn't get the 100% odds from breeding two superstripes or two platy together.

[OhhWatALoser]

I think the normal looking baby from RDR's platy X platy breeding was a female. By the allele theory it should be a known homozygous hidden (there where probably others in the nineteen 33% chance homozygous hiddens mentioned). She might be close to breeding size by now or a homozygous hidden male may have been identified from the earlier pairings.

25% homozygous you can't tell homozygous from heterozygous from normal.

[RandyRemington]

Your right! I was thinking of 33% chance homozygous pinstripes from a pinstripe X pinstripe breeding where at least you can exclude the 25% chance normals. With hidden X hidden as you pointed out you can't tell any of the three genotypes (homozygous normal, heterozygous hidden, and homozygous hidden) apart. Now that's an interesting project!

[Skyespirit86]

Aye aye aye....brain strain. Its a sunday morning too

so... let me get this straight, the Blue-Eyed Leucistic complex is the group of mutations which all react with each other, producing a homozygous form when crossed, kinda like motley and stripe in corn snakes. They're allelic?

But the appearance of the homozygous form will vary depending on what makes it up, and many of the crosses produce a white snake- the BEL, which give the 'complex' its name.

Some crosses haven't been done yet so you cant be sure they definately do produce a homozygous form but they probably do.

Mystic x any of the regulars ie lesser, mojave, het russo, mocha, buter will make a BEL. But its probably the same thing as a phantom. Phantoms when crossed with any in the list above will make BELS too, but not with each other (super phantom), they make a darker snake with pattern. Because its probably the same as mystic, then you can guess that a supermystic will look the same, or very similar.

Butter and lesser are really the same thing, just different lines...

I'm still not up to date on the specials though. Apparently they make a 'crystal' which i gather is not a BEL when bred with mojaves since it has colour/pattern. So since they react with mojave that makes them part of the BEL complex....but are arent thought to produce Blue eyed lucys when crossed with anything, given how they have so far reacted with a mojave?

With the lesser x lesser, lesser x butter, mojave x lesser, etc etc basic crossings the white snakes produced are simply called Blue Eyed Leucistics. Theyre not given individual names. Yet the homozygous Vin russo is a white diamond, and a homozygous mocha a latte....so is a vin russo x something else eg lesser just a regular Blue eyed lucy and isnt called a white diamond too or anything?

Are their any other names then for any of the homozygous forms of various crosses that havent been mentioned so far, therefore excluding lattes, white diamonds and crystals?

That is all.

[Skyespirit86]

Damn i just tried editing my post and got told it was mre than 10 minutes after so couldnt. arrrgh!who invented that rule, it takes time to write sometimes!!!

[sg1trogdor]

From what I understand specials are part of the platty complex much like the super stripe. With lessers they make platinums, or platty daddies, with butters they make butter daddies, with mojaves they make crystals, and I am sure they will react with phantoms if it is ever tried. This is mainly a theory of mine, but I have done my research and it is accurate to what I have learned for myself. ~Caylan.S.~

I may be wrong and it may have been answered earlier. But specials are a mojo like morph that when bred together make crystals or was it bred to a mojo i dont know the whole story. When I say mojo like I mean they came from breeding a mojo to a apparent normal or something like that again I do not know the whole back story. Like I said I may be referring to a different "special" but those are the only ones I know of.

[OhhWatALoser]

I'm still not up to date on the specials though. Apparently they make a 'crystal' which i gather is not a BEL when bred with mojaves since it has colour/pattern. So since they react with mojave that makes them part of the BEL complex....but are arent thought to produce Blue eyed lucys when crossed with anything, given how they have so far reacted with a mojave?

With the lesser x lesser, lesser x butter, mojave x lesser, etc etc basic crossings the white snakes produced are simply called Blue Eyed Leucistics. Theyre not given individual names. Yet the homozygous Vin russo is a white diamond, and a homozygous mocha a latte....so is a vin russo x something else eg lesser just a regular Blue eyed lucy and isnt called a white diamond too or anything?

Are their any other names then for any of the homozygous forms of various crosses that havent been mentioned so far, therefore excluding lattes, white diamonds and crystals?

That is all.

your doing pretty good so far, best way I can think of to explain specials is their like yellowbellys, hard as crap to tell apart from a normal(if you can at all), but when combined with other things or themselves, they make cool stuff. I think specials are pretty new so they just need more time, have to see what a lesser/special looks like and what not. hopefully someone will give them another name.

all those names are just names they really don't mean anything and their all BELs. all you know is when your buying a white diamond, its a russo x russo. not a cross of any others. a russo x lesser would just be a BEL. but when buying any BEL your going to want to know what the genetics are behind it anyways... so giving these select few names seems kinda pointless to me.

phantom x lesser is called a karma. hidden x lesser is a platinum. about all I can think of.