The good 'ol blue eyed lucy complex

[Skyespirit86]

Aye aye aye....brain strain. Its a sunday morning too

so... let me get this straight, the Blue-Eyed Leucistic complex is the group of mutations which all react with each other, producing a homozygous form when crossed, kinda like motley and stripe in corn snakes. They're allelic?

But the appearance of the homozygous form will vary depending on what makes it up, and many of the crosses produce a white snake- the BEL, which give the 'complex' its name.

Some crosses haven't been done yet so you cant be sure they definately do produce a homozygous form but they probably do.

Mystic x any of the regulars ie lesser, mojave, het russo, mocha, buter will make a BEL. But its probably the same thing as a phantom. Phantoms when crossed with any in the list above will make BELS too, but not with each other (super phantom), they make a darker snake with pattern. Because its probably the same as mystic, then you can guess that a supermystic will look the same, or very similar.

Butter and lesser are really the same thing, just different lines...

I'm still not up to date on the specials though. Apparently they make a 'crystal' which i gather is not a BEL when bred with mojaves since it has colour/pattern. So since they react with mojave that makes them part of the BEL complex....but are arent thought to produce Blue eyed lucys when crossed with anything, given how they have so far reacted with a mojave?

With the lesser x lesser, lesser x butter, mojave x lesser, etc etc basic crossings the white snakes produced are simply called Blue Eyed Leucistics. Theyre not given individual names. Yet the homozygous Vin russo is a white diamond, and a homozygous mocha a latte....so is a vin russo x something else eg lesser just a regular Blue eyed lucy and isnt called a white diamond too or anything?

Are their any other names then for any of the homozygous forms of various crosses that havent been mentioned so far, therefore excluding lattes, white diamonds and crystals?

That is all.

[Skyespirit86]

Damn i just tried editing my post and got told it was mre than 10 minutes after so couldnt. arrrgh!who invented that rule, it takes time to write sometimes!!!

[OhhWatALoser]

I'm still not up to date on the specials though. Apparently they make a 'crystal' which i gather is not a BEL when bred with mojaves since it has colour/pattern. So since they react with mojave that makes them part of the BEL complex....but are arent thought to produce Blue eyed lucys when crossed with anything, given how they have so far reacted with a mojave?

With the lesser x lesser, lesser x butter, mojave x lesser, etc etc basic crossings the white snakes produced are simply called Blue Eyed Leucistics. Theyre not given individual names. Yet the homozygous Vin russo is a white diamond, and a homozygous mocha a latte....so is a vin russo x something else eg lesser just a regular Blue eyed lucy and isnt called a white diamond too or anything?

Are their any other names then for any of the homozygous forms of various crosses that havent been mentioned so far, therefore excluding lattes, white diamonds and crystals?

That is all.

your doing pretty good so far, best way I can think of to explain specials is their like yellowbellys, hard as crap to tell apart from a normal(if you can at all), but when combined with other things or themselves, they make cool stuff. I think specials are pretty new so they just need more time, have to see what a lesser/special looks like and what not. hopefully someone will give them another name.

all those names are just names they really don't mean anything and their all BELs. all you know is when your buying a white diamond, its a russo x russo. not a cross of any others. a russo x lesser would just be a BEL. but when buying any BEL your going to want to know what the genetics are behind it anyways... so giving these select few names seems kinda pointless to me.

phantom x lesser is called a karma. hidden x lesser is a platinum. about all I can think of.

[Skyespirit86]

Thanks, so what makes a mystic potion?

Do all the BEL complex snakes have clear bellies?

[RandyRemington]

Thanks, so what makes a mystic potion?

Do all the BEL complex snakes have clear bellies?

Mystic potion is the combination of one copy mystic and from the other parent one copy mojave.

I'd love to know if RDR's hiddens have clear belies. I think all the others are reported to. If not, then the hiddens may well be completely invisible. And even if they do some normals have pretty clear belies.

I've got a clear belly captive hatched girl I'm hoping is something like the mystic that I'm trying to breed to my mojave this year. A breeder near me proved one a few years back to produce BEL with lesser and hopefully will get some mojave cross with that this year to see if his ch girl is phantom/mystic.

[RandyRemington]

Right on with most everything, just a few comments:

...
the Blue-Eyed Leucistic complex is the group of mutations which all react with each other, producing a homozygous form when crossed, kinda like motley and stripe in corn snakes. They're allelic?
...

I've been looking for a name for the combinations of different mutant alleles for a while and haven't found one yet. I would not call them "homozygous" as technically they are a heterozygous because the two copies of the gene don't match (the definition of heterozygous). It's just that most of what we call "hets" are one mutant with one normal and in this case it's one mutant with a different mutant of the same gene and no room for a normal copy.

...
Mystic x any of the regulars ie lesser, mojave, het russo, mocha, buter will make a BEL. But its probably the same thing as a phantom. Phantoms when crossed with any in the list above will make BELS too, but not with each other (super phantom), they make a darker snake with pattern. Because its probably the same as mystic, then you can guess that a supermystic will look the same, or very similar.
...

So far I think the only mystic crosses with other members of this complex are mystic\\mojave = mystic potion and mystic\\mystic = super mystic. Both of those are dark snakes. If mystic = phantom which so far seems very likely then mystic\\lesser would be expected to be a BEL (karma) like phantom\\lesser. I've not heard of phantom\\mojave yet but that would be a good test of the mystic = phantom expectation.

...
I'm still not up to date on the specials though. Apparently they make a 'crystal' which i gather is not a BEL when bred with mojaves since it has colour/pattern. So since they react with mojave that makes them part of the BEL complex....but are arent thought to produce Blue eyed lucys when crossed with anything, given how they have so far reacted with a mojave?
...

I believe BHB or someone made what they thought was a lesser\\special and it was similar but some different than the mojave\\special = crystal. Don't know if there was any link to be sure it was the same special gene. The inheritance of crystal X normal (50/50 split of special and mojave and no crystals or normals) is another evidence that special is in the complex. The homozygous special has also been made and is a whitish snake that has a lot of yellow as I remember.