Fuzzy Stuck?

[BadMojo]

Okay, I'm sort of new to this ball python game so please forgive me of any real or implied ignorance.

My son's python (Misty) is almost a year old (next month). She's been a dream to own and my son is nuts about her. We started her on frozen fuzzies about three weeks ago. Although she shed as recently as November, after two fuzzies, she started shedding again last week. While replacing her water Sunday night, she was out and about, sitting on her log (her typical "hey, I'm ready to eat" spot), and being very active. She had lost the skin around her face and about 1/8" inch past her head. It was her normal weekly feeding time so I decided to go ahead and feed her. Although a little more active in her feeding box (a separate container) than she normally was, she quickly took the fuzzy. She didn't have any issues with the first two fuzzies from the past couple weeks but this one seems to be stuck about 1/3rd of the way down. She's very lethargic and keeps her mouth open a bit. We've touched her and she's moved around a bit but I'm concerned that, because the rest of her body hasn't completed shedding yet, the tightness of the skin is preventing the fuzzy from moving further along. Also, her mouth seems, well, swollen and puffy. Has anyone experienced this? I'm probably being paranoid since, in the wild, there is no one there to say "hey, don't eat yet" but since we're going on the 2nd day of her being this way, I'm worried. Part of me wants to take her out -- gently, of course -- and soak her a bit to assist the shedding. The humidity and temp are perfect (about 86 on the warm side and running 60%) but perhaps it's not enough.

I've googled about every word combination I can think of and can't find anything specific to this. In general, the thought is to just give her time. A friend of mine with a 13 year old python recommended this site so I thought I'd give ya'll a try. Any insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[singingtothewheat]

Have you got a Under Tank heater? I'd use that. Soaking her will help too but keep an eye on here. While seemingly unbelievable, I have heard of snakes drowning during a normal soak

[BadMojo]

Yes, we do have an undertank heater. I'm thinking of trying the soaking tonight, taking care not to use too much water. I may post a pic then to give an idea of what she looks like. Last time she did something like this was when a pinky went in sideways a bit but it only took her a day to down it. This is taking way longer. Probably overreacting, but still.

Thanks for the reply!

[singingtothewheat]

Yes, we do have an undertank heater. I'm thinking of trying the soaking tonight, taking care not to use too much water. I may post a pic then to give an idea of what she looks like. Last time she did something like this was when a pinky went in sideways a bit but it only took her a day to down it. This is taking way longer. Probably overreacting, but still.

Thanks for the reply!

If your concerned about hydration, you can add pedialyte to the soak

[Sarin]

A picture would help us. Also, I would suggest bumping her hot side to 91-93 degrees F. 86 is just too cold for a hot spot IMO.

And Fuzzy what? Mice or Rats? Either way, I think you are feeding her too small of a rodent. Feed her a pray item that is the thickest part of her body, maybe even a bit bigger. Even better, feed her 10-15% of her weight every feeding. (ex., if she is 500 grams, feed her a 65ish gram rodent.)

Keep us updated.

[BadMojo]

A picture would help us. Also, I would suggest bumping her hot side to 91-93 degrees F. 86 is just too cold for a hot spot IMO.

And Fuzzy what? Mice or Rats? Either way, I think you are feeding her too small of a rodent. Feed her a pray item that is the thickest part of her body, maybe even a bit bigger. Even better, feed her 10-15% of her weight every feeding. (ex., if she is 500 grams, feed her a 65ish gram rodent.)

Keep us updated.

Misty is on fuzzy mice and they actually are about the size of the thickest part of her body. The feeding itself isn't so much the concern, it's whether anyone has ever had an issue with feeding during shedding such that, because the skin hasn't really split and started to pull off, the mouse seemingly gets stuck. She snagged it perfectly, right on the head, and took it straight instead of sideways. But, again, it just seems to be sitting there at the top part of her body, about 1/2 way down her trachea but not to her stomach yet (at least, as of this morning when I checked before leaving for work). Again, we're going on the 2nd day like this.

BTW, I do agree about the hotspot. The problem is logistical. We have the humidifier on the hotspot side so the mist cools it down a bit. We'll probably move the humidifier to the other side to alleviate.

[mr. s]

A picture would help a lot. I too am confused why a year old bp is eating fuzzies. Not even hoppers? Sounds to me like it might be more than just a shed problem if this snake is that drastically undersized? Sounds like husbandry is right though......
I don't feed my snakes during shed, so I have never come across this problem myself.

[kc261]

I think the snake should see a vet. At least make a call and conference with one over the phone before you do anything else. I have never experienced anything like this, nor do I remember a post anything like this in the 2 1/2 years I've been a member on this forum. Even the most experienced members here may never have dealt with the problem, or at best have seen it only rarely, so I would think any "advice" you get is more guessing than anything, and I would not want to trust my snake's life to that. (And, yes, I am including my own "advice" in that as well.)

Somethings just do not make sense here. OP, please don't take this as an attack, but as an honest attempt to try to establish for sure what is going on. I just can't see how a year old BP could get a fuzzy mouse stuck 1/3 of the way down its neck.

First let's establish that you do in fact have a BP, and what you are feeding it is in fact what most of us would call fuzzy mice. Sometimes clueless pet store employees will misinform a customer, and the customer never has a reason to question it, so they may think they have a BP when they really have a boa, or a corn, or... If you could post photos of your snake, that would tell us for sure, as well as letting us see the lump in the neck that you believe is a stuck fuzzy. If you can't post photos, try goggling "normal ball python" and then click on "images", just to be sure. (If you are SURE you have a BP because you have some knowledge that I don't know about, such as a book or whatever, obviously you can skip this.)

Try taking a look at this webpage to see what most of us consider fuzzy mice:
http://rodentpro.com/catalog.asp?pro...el=frozen_mice
Are the mice you are feeding to your snake about that size? Most BPs can start on the next size up, hoppers, right out of the egg, and some even start on weanlings or adult mice, so you can understand why we are surprised that a year old BP would have any issue at all with a fuzzy mouse.

My final question is how sure are you that it is the fuzzy that is stuck in her neck? Is it possibly something like a tumor? Or some other item other than the fuzzy? From what I know, if a snake tries to swallow something that is too big, it will usually regurge it. Regurge is usually considered a bad thing, but it might be better than having a food item stuck in the neck.

I think if it is an item stuck in her neck, then getting the shed off right away (right AFTER you call the vet, and make sure they agree) would probably be best. Because of the object in her throat, I would NOT want to use my hands at all.... I'd hate to push it in a direction it should not go. Either soak the snake or put her in a damp pillowcase. If you soak her, make sure the water is shallow enough she won't drown, and observe her while soaking. With either the soak or the pillowcase method, make sure she stays in her proper temperature range. Since she is so lethargic, she might not get the shed off, but even if she doesn't, the soak may soften the skin enough to allow the fuzzy to move down her throat.

I really hope you are able to get this resolved. Please keep us updated!

[kc261]

I don't feed my snakes during shed, so I have never come across this problem myself.

I feed my snakes when they are in shed all the time. It does not cause this problem with appropriately sized prey items. It might be possible that it would cause issues with prey items that are very large for the snake. But, in this case, the fuzzy is probably too small for the snake, so I think there must be something more going on than just the shed issue.

[BadMojo]

I think the snake should see a vet. At least make a call and conference with one over the phone before you do anything else. I have never experienced anything like this, nor do I remember a post anything like this in the 2 1/2 years I've been a member on this forum. Even the most experienced members here may never have dealt with the problem, or at best have seen it only rarely, so I would think any "advice" you get is more guessing than anything, and I would not want to trust my snake's life to that. (And, yes, I am including my own "advice" in that as well.)

Somethings just do not make sense here. OP, please don't take this as an attack, but as an honest attempt to try to establish for sure what is going on. I just can't see how a year old BP could get a fuzzy mouse stuck 1/3 of the way down its neck.

First let's establish that you do in fact have a BP, and what you are feeding it is in fact what most of us would call fuzzy mice. Sometimes clueless pet store employees will misinform a customer, and the customer never has a reason to question it, so they may think they have a BP when they really have a boa, or a corn, or... If you could post photos of your snake, that would tell us for sure, as well as letting us see the lump in the neck that you believe is a stuck fuzzy. If you can't post photos, try goggling "normal ball python" and then click on "images", just to be sure. (If you are SURE you have a BP because you have some knowledge that I don't know about, such as a book or whatever, obviously you can skip this.)

Try taking a look at this webpage to see what most of us consider fuzzy mice:
http://rodentpro.com/catalog.asp?pro...el=frozen_mice
Are the mice you are feeding to your snake about that size? Most BPs can start on the next size up, hoppers, right out of the egg, and some even start on weanlings or adult mice, so you can understand why we are surprised that a year old BP would have any issue at all with a fuzzy mouse.

My final question is how sure are you that it is the fuzzy that is stuck in her neck? Is it possibly something like a tumor? Or some other item other than the fuzzy? From what I know, if a snake tries to swallow something that is too big, it will usually regurge it. Regurge is usually considered a bad thing, but it might be better than having a food item stuck in the neck.

I think if it is an item stuck in her neck, then getting the shed off right away (right AFTER you call the vet, and make sure they agree) would probably be best. Because of the object in her throat, I would NOT want to use my hands at all.... I'd hate to push it in a direction it should not go. Either soak the snake or put her in a damp pillowcase. If you soak her, make sure the water is shallow enough she won't drown, and observe her while soaking. With either the soak or the pillowcase method, make sure she stays in her proper temperature range. Since she is so lethargic, she might not get the shed off, but even if she doesn't, the soak may soften the skin enough to allow the fuzzy to move down her throat.

I really hope you are able to get this resolved. Please keep us updated!

kc261, thanks for responding and no, I'm not taking anything said as an attack. And believe me, I know this is unusual because I couldn't find anything on the interwebs about it.

We definitely have a ball python but, after talking to my wife just a few minutes ago, I was informed that Misty is only about 8 months old, not a year old. She was on pinkies until 3 weeks ago because, frankly, she was looking for food about three or four days after eating. Again, the first two fuzzies went down without any issue. Fifteen to twenty minutes and she was on her way again. Unless they are labeling the box wrong, they are definitely fuzzies. They match the size of the pic you linked to.

I completely agree that this is an oddball situation. So, let me lay the timeline. Sunday night I was doing the normal water change thinking she wouldn't come out because she had been getting ready to shed. As I'm changing the water, she comes out of her rock and starts going all over the place in her tank, going to all the normal places she usually goes when she knows it's time to eat. Perhaps it was Pavlovian versus actual hunger, but, either way, she had shed the skin off her head so I figured it was okay to feed her. After going through the normal motions, I presented the fuzzy and she snatched it immediately. After abound 30 minutes, she had it in her throat but it wasn't going down like normal, despite a text-book strike. We gently put her back in her tank to let her finish (she eats in a separate container). As of this morning -- and even this afternoon, after talking to my wife -- the fuzzy is still in the upper 1/3rd of her body. She keeps her mouth open a bit and you can smell the mouse. It literally looks like the dead skin that hasn't come off yet is strong enough to not allow the fuzzy to continue on down. Essentially, the path is pinched. I can't describe it any other way. Just imagine the fuzzy being completely past the neck but not any further and that's the way she looks.

We're going to try soaking to see if that loosens the skin and lets things progress normally. If that doesn't do anything, then I'll probably have my wife call a reptile vet tomorrow and do a consult. Perhaps it's just coincidence and something happened with the fuzzy on the way down...like it got hung on something...instead of it being related to her shedding. I don't know. Right now, I'm just grabbing at straws.

Thanks again for the response. I'll try to get a picture up tonight after I get home.