Female rats and lipomas

[Mindibun]

Before I even open my mouth, I just want to warn everyone that this *might* be a little controversial. I have had many differing opinions and I wanted to post here. PLEASE, if you disagree with something that is said, then by all means express it. But do NOT do so negatively. This seems to be a touchy subject to begin with. I don't want to add flaming and negativity to the fray as well.

That being said, some of you may know that I have two female pet rats. They are about 3 years old now and both have developed lipomas. The white one has a VERY large lipoma on her side and a small one starting on her other side. I think there may be a third just barely starting on her chest. The black one just seems to have only one large one on her side.

I was not worried about the lipomas in the beginning as I know a little about them and I know that they are pretty much harmless. The girls still act normal (for older rats) and still have a very healthy appetite. They still climb and wrestle a bit with each other. However, because they are getting more numerous (and in Dexi's case they seem to be concentrating themselves around her chest) I am now worrying.

I spoke with a local rat breeder who is a friend of a friend and has been breeding for many years. He said that it is very common for female rats to get lipomas, and he happened to have a female that was going on 4 years old and had a baseball-sized lipoma on her side. He said that it doesn't seem to bother her and he has just let her be. He suggested I do the same.

I called my "exotics" vet later that day and explained the situation. She said she recommended having them removed at $200 per rat, per lipoma. She said that sometimes the lipomas DO cause the rats pain, but they do not show it. I told the vet I'd have to think about it and hung up. I cannot afford $800 in surgery for two rats that, combined, cost me $3 to purchase. As much as I love them, I am just not made of money.

So, the girls have done fine and other than sleeping a lot more than ever before, they don't seem to be bothered by the lipomas. I am afraid that Dexi's lipomas will begin to press on her lungs soon if they aren't already, and make it difficult to breathe. My boyfriend thinks I should have them put to sleep. I don't think it's time yet. The vet thinks they should be surgically removed, and the breeder says don't worry about it.

What is the group opinion here?

I'm including a recent photo so you can see what I'm talking about. Kahlua is the black one and you can see her lipoma hanging down from her side. Dexi's large lipoma is only visible under her stomach. It literally hangs down to the floor. It looks like there are two white rats sitting side by side instead of one. The one you see on the side facing the camera is the new one, and as I mentioned before there seems to be a third starting on her chest between her two front legs. It is not visible in the picture.



I have had people that are unfamiliar with rats and lipomas call me an animal abuser and a terrible person for not having them put down. Please understand that if my girls acted as if they were in pain I would have them to a vet. Please do not make negative remarks directed at me as a person.

[Mindibun]

Tonight when I went to feed the girls Dexi acted uninterested. This is the first time she's done that. Her sister ran to the bowl and grabbed a handful and took it back to her bed three times before Dexi even started eating. When she finally did start she ate a bit and then seemed to have trouble swallowing. I am wondering if the lipoma is pushing on her esophagus (sp?) as well, making it difficult to swallow. I brought her into bed with me for a bit and she is having more trouble walking than usual. I think I will call the vet tomorrow. I think it may be Dexi's time ...

I am almost in tears thinking about it. I will have her sister put down at the same time, regardess of whether it's tomorrow or two months from now. I want them to go together - they've never left each other's side during their entire lives.

[Mindibun]

I called two vets this morning and both want to test the girls to see if they are healthy enough for surgery. My gut says that they are not. How do I explain to the vet that I can't/don't want to pay for pre-testing and surgery costs? I mentioned to one that I really didn't think it was a good idea. "They look old, they act old, they ARE old," I told her. But she said they'd try it anyway. I also mentioned to the vet that I couldn't pay for anything until I get paid next week. They said, "Well, the animals probably need to be treated quickly."

"I know that, that's why I'm calling you. Will you allow me to set up a payment plan which will be entirely paid off by next week?"

"No, we don't typically do that. We would need money upfront, especially the cost of the office visit. It's only $50."

"Yes, but you don't seem to understand that I don't HAVE $50. So unless you allow me to give you $5 now and pay the rest in its entirety next week, there's nothing I can do."

"Well, why don't you call us back when you get paid, then?"

Seriously? Is this a vet that cares about the animals or the money? I have used this vet for my rabbits in the past. There are 4 of them and one of them needed surgery. She's made a lot of money off of me and I've never given them any trouble. But when it comes to $50 they can't even wait a few days? I told them I'd call the second vet, which I did. I don't think I'll be using them anymore.

I need to know I'm doing the right thing, here, guys. Hasn't anyone ever gone through this?

[bokuza]

Rats are fantastic at hiding pain. It's in their very bones to do so. Lymphomas cause pain one they reach past the size of a nickle. It's a growth that shouldn't be there and it pressures their body, it's heavy too. There is no way around it and even if they act fine just remember how damn well rats are at adapting. I have to honestly state the rat breeder is way off, a baseball sized Lymphoma is nothing to be 'fine' about and it seems you have some very snarky vets. Either way Lymphomas are painful and they do drain the rats of energy.

If you feel your females can't handle surgery (though it sounds you don't want to do it regardless) then I think your responsibility to put them down. It sounds to me like the Lymphomas are taking their toll.

[Mindibun]

It's not that I don't want to do the surgery. If I could shell out $800 and have my rats for years to come I would try to find the money somehow.

I just honestly don't think they can handle it. And why put them through the trauma of finding out if we just aren't sure? Not being able to afford it doesn't mean I don't want to do it. :/

I understand what you meant, though.

[nbelval]

Your rats are three, the chance that they would make it through surgery, recovery and then go on to live more than a few months is very slim.
I always say the worst part about owning rats is the short lifespan.

If you asked the vet what can be done to help the rats, then surgery will be suggested. Yes, they do want your money...I worked for a vet for a number of years and if the client wants to spend the money to try everything, they are not going to talk you out of it.
You need to say I have two elderly rats with Lipoma's and I need them to be euthanized. These are YOUR animals and YOU are paying the vet to provide a service. While their expertise is appreciated, in this case you know what you want to do and need to let them know that surgery is not an option. You do not owe them an explanation as to why. That is your business, not theirs.
Depending on the vet some will sedate with a gas anesthesia and then administer the injection or others will do an abdominal or intracardial stick. (Sorry if my terminology is off, it's been a few years). If you can find a vet that will administer the gas first, it's the best way to have it done as just the injection can be painful.

I know you love these girls dearly, but if Dexi is showing signs, then she is at the point where she can't hide the pain anymore. I think having them both done at the same time is kindest as your remaining rat won't be far behind her friend and would be heartbroken by herself.
If YOU are comfortable with your decision and you know it's best for your babies, then that's all that matters. Hugs!

[Mindibun]

I asked my boss to call in a favor for me with the vet that he works with. I have an appointment to take the girls tomorrow at 1:45 in the afternoon to be euthanized. I will ask if there are any other options, but I know deep down that this is probably best. I just need to hear a doctor say, "No, you've done all you can. Let them go in peace."

I wanted to spend the night with them but they are just so very tired. I held Dexi for a bit, petting her like I always do and she was bruxing SO loudly. -lol- I don't think I've ever heard her be that loud before. I'll give them a good meal before bedtime and spend a little more quiet time with them. Tomorrow I'll probably take them outside in a carrier for a bit and let them get some fresh air.

I thought for certain that when I came home from work and saw them that I would start crying all over again. But I made up my mind that I didn't want them to sense any negativity from me and I've been happy and talking in baby voices all night. I haven't allowed myself to be sad. There will be time for that tomorrow.

I've made up my mind to fix up their cage, repaint it and get it nice again and donate it to a local rat rescue. I think that would make the girls happy (if they could understand things the same way we humans do).

I just want to be in the room when they put them out. I know that this doctor (who is actually purely a bird doctor - never anything other than birds) has a chamber of sorts that he lays the animal(s) in to administer the gas. I've asked him to use a heavy dose of isoflurane and hopefully bipass any needles altogether. He seems to be perfectly ok with this. I just need to be the last thing the girls see, and I need to know that everything went smoothly and there were no problems and the girls are "ok now." I hope the vet will let me into the back when he does it...

[GoingPostal]

I'm sorry about your rats but have to say you are making the right choice, I'm honestly amazed that your vet would suggest major surgery like that on 3 year old rats at that cost. That's insane and really screams to me that money is the concern and not the animal.

When my oldest ferret who had already made it through one type of cancer was diagnosed with two more a few years later my vet was honest, she laid out the options but openly stated she would not choose to put a ferret through chemo/surgery to gain another few months with her, the suffering she would go through is not worth it and I agreed 100%. We only got a couple months with her after diagnosis but they were good months.

I got rambling there but sounds like your rats were loved and cared for, enjoy this last time with them and get some pictures taken, that's always my regret, not enough pictures to remember the good times.

[singingtothewheat]

I asked my boss to call in a favor for me with the vet that he works with. I have an appointment to take the girls tomorrow at 1:45 in the afternoon to be euthanized. I will ask if there are any other options, but I know deep down that this is probably best. I just need to hear a doctor say, "No, you've done all you can. Let them go in peace."

I wanted to spend the night with them but they are just so very tired. I held Dexi for a bit, petting her like I always do and she was bruxing SO loudly. -lol- I don't think I've ever heard her be that loud before. I'll give them a good meal before bedtime and spend a little more quiet time with them. Tomorrow I'll probably take them outside in a carrier for a bit and let them get some fresh air.

I thought for certain that when I came home from work and saw them that I would start crying all over again. But I made up my mind that I didn't want them to sense any negativity from me and I've been happy and talking in baby voices all night. I haven't allowed myself to be sad. There will be time for that tomorrow.

I've made up my mind to fix up their cage, repaint it and get it nice again and donate it to a local rat rescue. I think that would make the girls happy (if they could understand things the same way we humans do).

I just want to be in the room when they put them out. I know that this doctor (who is actually purely a bird doctor - never anything other than birds) has a chamber of sorts that he lays the animal(s) in to administer the gas. I've asked him to use a heavy dose of isoflurane and hopefully bipass any needles altogether. He seems to be perfectly ok with this. I just need to be the last thing the girls see, and I need to know that everything went smoothly and there were no problems and the girls are "ok now." I hope the vet will let me into the back when he does it...

Your such a sweet person. I will definitely keep you and your girls in my thoughts a prayers. There are few things harder than letting go of something you love and it is clear you love them. Remember the good times with them, the love, the laughs that a small creature can bring to you. They have been lucky to have you and you have been lucky to have them!

[Mindibun]

Thank you for the kind words. They really help right now.

People tell me I've been good to my girls, but really, I think it's the other way around.