Culling mutated hatchlings:

[j_h_smith]

I think perhaps you aren't quite sure of the meaning of the term 'humane'. I can't imagine where all of this stuff about putting 'human faces' on animals comes from. Don't depersonalize animals because they have to die, either. They are still thinking, feeling beings. They have a great deal of awareness, and they deserve respect. It's possible to respect an animal, to be aware of its emotional life, it's intelligence, and its sensory input, without 'humanizing' it. Humans are just animals too, you know. Just one more kind of animal, no different from any other in any way but degree and arrangement of parts. We have not one single thing about us that is truly unique--just extremes of already existing traits found in other species. We aren't special, we're just vain.

We put ourselves first because all species put themselves first. That's not wrong. We eat other animals because we are omnivores--that's what we evolved to be. If we have to kill another animal, we have the capability to decide whether we want to cause excessive pain, or do it quickly and painlessly. We have the capacity for empathy, something we share with only a few other species. We can decide if it is appropriate to apply that empathy to the animals we raise. I personally believe that it is appropriate, so I do my best to avoid causing undo pain, stress, or unhappiness to animals in my care. If I have to kill something, I do it quickly and cleanly, with their ability to perceive pain FAR more in mind than my own emotions about having to engage in the act. I feel that it is more important to be humane than for me to avoid doing something difficult.

I also believe that engaging in unnecessary cruelty is a sign of mental illness in humans. Lack of empathy is one of the primary symptoms of sociopathy. So being aware of the feelings of animals in your care is an important part of being a healthy human.

It doesn't mean you don't kill them, or that you weep in your cheerios over it--it means you respect them and minimize their suffering, because you would want someone to do the same for you, if you were in their place. It is the right thing to do. Oh, and it's also illegal to engage in cruelty to animals.

Okay, now I've got a problem here. It seems to me that you're okay with how an animal is killed as long as you don't have to do it. Do you eat meats, any meats? If you do, then you are partaking in the slaying of many different animals. Do you think that when a fish is gutted alive, this is humane, but I bet you eat fish? When a mullisk is pried open while still alive, is this humane? Do you think that zapping thousands of cattle a day with high levels of electiricity is humane, but I bet you eat meat? Do you think any business that slaughters animals as part of their process, kill their stock in the fashion you mention above?

Putting a "human face" on something is different than putting "human faces" on an animal. I'll let you look up what a metaphor is for this one.

Animals aren't people, so I can't depersonalize them. Yes, they are animals, so are the rats, mice, rabbits and piglets used in our hobby/businesses. So is the food you put in your mouth everyday. Do you worry about how that pork chop died you're going to have for dinner tonight? I am fully aware these are animals, every juicey, succulent bite I take of my porterhouse steak, I am aware I am eating a gloriously delicious animal. You may not be special, but my Mommy always told me I was special, you can be the vain one in this discussion. But honestly, do you really put this much thought into the killing of a snake, a rat, a mouse, whatever? You must not sleep at night very often.

You are correct, I do put myself first above and beyond any other animal on this planet. I run over that squirrel that for some reason won't get out of the road instead of swerving to avoid it and hitting another car or damaging my car in a number of ways. I put myself first every November when I put that deer in the sights of my rifle and pull the trigger.

You can empathize with the plight of an animal ready to die, but it's going to die. Taking care of your animals is not what we're discussing here. We were talking about the means of killing an animal that the owner decided must die, for whatever reason (doesn't matter). I was saying that we can't put the values of humans on an animal's life. This is where the human face metaphor come in. This is where humane/inhumane also comes into the discussion. See?

Again, you mention animals in your care, well I'm not. I'm talking about you saying animals need to be considered when they must die. For that matter, how many humans really care about the other humans? I won't take this any further here.

You talk about unnecessary cruelty. To whom are you talking about? The farmer in Kansas or the New York city dwelller? Are you talking about the Native Americans or the Jewish community? Are you talking about an NRA member or a PETA member? You can't put a stamp on this of your own design. That's called egotistical. See I too know some $9 college words.

Cruelty to animals is not what we're talking about here. Never in my discussions did I ever say, nor imply that you have to be cruel, but I guess it all depends on your definition of cruel. Are you of Kansas design or are you more of the New York city design. That's for you to ask yourself.

NRA or PETA? You decide.

We're probably done discussing this, since we have differing values. You have your views, and I have mine. You are entitled to your views as I am mine. I'm content with with that.

Jim Smith