Newest email from USARK- Python ban moves forward

[WingedWolfPsion]

The snakes on the amended bill:

Burmese Pythons
Indian Pythons
African Rock Pythons (both species)
Reticulated Pythons
All 4 species of Anaconda
Boa constrictor

[Kryptonian]

If this is all this bill will do then it isnt going to do anything to help the problems they think it will. Is thier reasoning behind this not to stop irrisponsible people from owning these animals and having them abandoned in local wildlife areas. If anything this will make those 2 problems worse. These animals will now become worthless therefore easier for people to breed and buy within thier own state. They will still breed them and they will still be sold to impulse buyers who think they are cool if they own a snake but care less about the responsibility. More of these animals will end up improperly cared for and abandoned then ever. Alot of irrisponsible people who own them now will be worried about the new law and start ditching thier animals, and think who cares its not worth anything anymore. It certainly wont stop things like the kid being killed. People can still own them then they can still be stupid in how they house them.

[WingedWolfPsion]

I wasn't recommending illegal activity either, for the record--but I was pointing out how completely unenforceable this law would be if people practiced civil disobedience and refused to comply with it.

Because the government does not track how many animals are produced by breeders each year, they have no way of knowing (short of genetic testing) what the origin of a specific animal is. Once an animal is an adult, they have no way of knowing when it was transported to a specific location.

Anyone who wanted to could easily sidestep this law by purchasing an animal out of state, transporting it to their home, then acquiring a receipt from a local breeder. The local breeder, if questioned, could claim they sold the parent of that animal to someone else locally in a cash deal. There is no way to track where the animal originated. Bloodlines across this country are SO mixed, genetic testing would not even be a viable means of checking up on this, particularly if people just kept on moving the animals around and mixing the lines.

The only way this law could be enforced is in chance encounters by law enforcement with people who are transporting an animal across a State line, or by randomly checking packages of shipped reptiles, the way they do for current Lacey Act stings.

You simply cannot keep track of these animals if you have no idea who currently owns them. That's a large part of what makes this bill so completely ridiculous--if it's not illegal to acquire or breed these animals without registering them in any way, preventing people from taking them across state lines is ludicrous. It's impossible to enforce. The only way they would have the opportunity to enforce it is through random package checks, or targeted operations against specific individuals. That's a very expensive proposition.

With enforcement impractical, and virtually all of the reptile community already expressing the intent to engage in civil disobedience, all this ban will accomplish is to make captive bred animals more valuable, since importation will have largely ceased. The trade in giant snakes will be driven underground, not eliminated. We know this will happen because people have already stated that they intend to do it.

I don't own any giant snakes--I'm not expressing my intent to violate the law, nor am I recommending that others do so. Fines if you are caught are extremely high. They might not be higher than the potential gain for sellers, however.

And here's ANOTHER point: The wording only adds these species to the list. It does NOT address the issue of hybridization. Theoretically, a ball/burm hybrid (for example) would be legal to transport, because it is NOT P. molurus.
Hybrids have been controversial in the trade for quite some time now, but if S 373 passes, hybridization would be a viable way to continue the trade in giant snakes without breaking the letter of the law.

[Ridley]

I wasn't recommending illegal activity either, for the record--but I was pointing out how completely unenforceable this law would be if people practiced civil disobedience and refused to comply with it.

Because the government does not track how many animals are produced by breeders each year, they have no way of knowing (short of genetic testing) what the origin of a specific animal is. Once an animal is an adult, they have no way of knowing when it was transported to a specific location.

Anyone who wanted to could easily sidestep this law by purchasing an animal out of state, transporting it to their home, then acquiring a receipt from a local breeder. The local breeder, if questioned, could claim they sold the parent of that animal to someone else locally in a cash deal. There is no way to track where the animal originated. Bloodlines across this country are SO mixed, genetic testing would not even be a viable means of checking up on this, particularly if people just kept on moving the animals around and mixing the lines.

The only way this law could be enforced is in chance encounters by law enforcement with people who are transporting an animal across a State line, or by randomly checking packages of shipped reptiles, the way they do for current Lacey Act stings.

You simply cannot keep track of these animals if you have no idea who currently owns them. That's a large part of what makes this bill so completely ridiculous--if it's not illegal to acquire or breed these animals without registering them in any way, preventing people from taking them across state lines is ludicrous. It's impossible to enforce. The only way they would have the opportunity to enforce it is through random package checks, or targeted operations against specific individuals. That's a very expensive proposition.

With enforcement impractical, and virtually all of the reptile community already expressing the intent to engage in civil disobedience, all this ban will accomplish is to make captive bred animals more valuable, since importation will have largely ceased. The trade in giant snakes will be driven underground, not eliminated. We know this will happen because people have already stated that they intend to do it.

I don't own any giant snakes--I'm not expressing my intent to violate the law, nor am I recommending that others do so. Fines if you are caught are extremely high. They might not be higher than the potential gain for sellers, however.

And here's ANOTHER point: The wording only adds these species to the list. It does NOT address the issue of hybridization. Theoretically, a ball/burm hybrid (for example) would be legal to transport, because it is NOT P. molurus.
Hybrids have been controversial in the trade for quite some time now, but if S 373 passes, hybridization would be a viable way to continue the trade in giant snakes without breaking the letter of the law.

The burden of proof will be on them to prove the snake is illegal, not for you to prove it's not. Cash deal at a reptile show...........no laws stating receipts must be given and no laws that make any type of lineage papers mandatory. Thats outside of the federal powers as it's intrastate commerce, not interstate. No way for them to prove otherwise regardless. There isn't going to be anyone looking for this anyways...who's going to be the ones enforcing it? Local leo? They won't know anything about it. Fed's don't go looking for someones pets, they have bigger fish to fry. DNR's have bigger fish to fry. I doubt there is ever one infraction to come of this at the hobbyist level, the law for all intents and purposes will be completely ignored in almost all states. The only ones that will feel the crunch is importers. Maybe the big chain stores will finally have to buy CBB's instead of farmed imports . Might be a little more don't ask don't tell stuff going on at the shows, but thats about it for the most part. I rarely interogate someone I'm buying a snake from anyways Some huge shows like Daytona will likely be affected as it has tons of out of staters, but not the local smaller ones. Anything and everything anyone wants will be available eventually, thats assured.

This law will be like 922r for you gun enthusiasts...never enforced or even looked at unless it's tacked on as an accessory crime and even at that almost always dropped. 99% of LEO don't have any knowledge of it anyways. Almost impossible to enforce or tell even if the law was known. Might see mention of it if John Doe's burm gets out and eats the neighbors dog.....but responsible owners will never be hassled by it.

Just another senseless waste of taxpayer money for knee jerk legislation. I really hope this galvanizes the industry though, and all herpers can band together and stay that way, and not allow the Liberals to separate us and defeat us in small groups like they do to the gun owners. There will likely come a time that this fight will have to fought at the state level where the laws become much more dangerous....be vigilant.

And last but not least....anyone voting Democrat might as well be sending money to HSUS and standing right there with them with their picket signs....remember that at the midterm elections next november

[herpmanout82]

So...

We may just enter, involuntary into the reptile black market?

[jjmitchell]

SO in my email from usark today S373 was updated to only include 9 species..... Because im not smart enough to recognize the scientific names I used Wikipedia to figure out what they were.
1. Python molurus Two subspecies Indian rock python and Burmese
2. Broghammeras reticulatus (Asiatic) reticulated python
3. Python sebae African rock python
4. Python natalensis Natal rock python
5. Boa constrictor Boa constrictor (red tail)
6. Eunectes notaeus yellow anaconda
7. Eunectes deschauenseei dark-spotted anaconda
8. Eunectes murinus green anaconda
9. Eunectes beniensis Bolivian anaconda
Hopefully I got all of this correct (please correct if wrong.) I am not trying to lecture or anything just trying to help make people aware.

I am the proud owner of 8 ball pythons, 1 columbian red tail, 1 corn snake,1 bearded dragon, 3 leopard geckos, 1 parrot, 2 pacman frogs,3 dogs and 3 cats. I am afraid that if this passes it will only be the begining.

[minguss]

The boa market is huge, I can't see that staying on the bill. Literally 90% of the boa market is in B.C.X species.

Anyone frequent any boa forums? Are they paying attention to this?

Actually yes, Over at one of the Red tail forum s(RTB.COM) I am a member o we have been working hard. Even before the amedment. One of the things that shocked me was the lack effert at a burm and retic forum.


My next course of action is to make a flyers and print some premade letters. I plan to include USARK, BP, and RTB as info sources.

Everybody please keep up the call, emails, faxes , and letters
Thanks Chris

[Denial]

Dont forget to also fight for the anaconda keepers, the burmese python keepers, the reticulated python keepers and the african rock python keepers also. Remember united we stand divided we fall! The big keepers have just as much right to keep these animals as ball python and boa keepers have to keep there animals. We need to stick together and fight as a team. NOT FIGHT TO GET BOAS OFF!