It seemed so wrong, but felt so right...

[Chocolate Muffin's]

I think I can understand the desire to allow a snake to feed live even though it's established itself on f/t rodents just to satisfy a personal curiosity. However, I cannot wrap my head around how someone can deliberately crush heads and feet to prevent the possibility that a tooth or nail might mar the snake. To crush the skull or extremities of a still living, breathing animal in an attempt to calm it down? That's entirely cruel and inhumane.

I have no qualms about feeding live animals to snakes provided the feeding is supervised and the rodent is removed if the snake isn't interested. I prefer feeding freshly killed rodents to my own snakes because I don't like having a freezer full of rats and mice and I also don't want to risk a well-placed rat bite injuring or scarring any of my snakes. When I kill rodents, I believe it's relatively quick and painless for them. To mutilate or maim them prior to offering them to a snake only increases already heightened stress levels and then leaves them in far more pain than necessary and I honestly don't know how someone could bring themselves to doing that to a living animal whether it's intended to be eaten or not. I'll get off my soapbox now....

Did I say anywhere in my post that I harmed the rodent before offering it to the snake?
I did not do that. Let me check my original post...hold on...

[Ludeboi]

...Muffin’s mouse was far worse however, I had to take my hemostats and crush his face to get him to calm down.

Whoa! Why did that remind me of that movie Misery?

[Chocolate Muffin's]

I think I can understand the desire to allow a snake to feed live even though it's established itself on f/t rodents just to satisfy a personal curiosity. However, I cannot wrap my head around how someone can deliberately crush heads and feet to prevent the possibility that a tooth or nail might mar the snake. To crush the skull or extremities of a still living, breathing animal in an attempt to calm it down? That's entirely cruel and inhumane.

I have no qualms about feeding live animals to snakes provided the feeding is supervised and the rodent is removed if the snake isn't interested. I prefer feeding freshly killed rodents to my own snakes because I don't like having a freezer full of rats and mice and I also don't want to risk a well-placed rat bite injuring or scarring any of my snakes. When I kill rodents, I believe it's relatively quick and painless for them. To mutilate or maim them prior to offering them to a snake only increases already heightened stress levels and then leaves them in far more pain than necessary and I honestly don't know how someone could bring themselves to doing that to a living animal whether it's intended to be eaten or not. I'll get off my soapbox now....

Maybe people are thinking that I did this before these rodents were presented to the animals? I'm not sure but I think I have made it pretty clear that the rodents were under restraint from the snakes with the exception of their feet ,claws, etc. I stand firm by position on this issue but your soapbox is always welcome : )

[Chocolate Muffin's]

Whoa! Why did that remind me of that movie Misery?

I know which scene too....

[redstormlax12]

The fact that you crushed the rodents face and feet before feeding is absolutely awful. I feel that it was extremely inhumane and cruel. I dont completely disagree with live feeding, but the fact that you mamed the rodents and put them in extreme pain before the feeding is awful. If your going to do that to the rodent then feed F/T. Live feeding is natural but once you step in and mame the prey, its awful. Yes your looking out for your snake, but you can easily solve that by feeding F/T. Your snake doesnt benefit for eating live. The action of feeding live was purely for your own entertainment and benefit. You cruely tortured those rodents and to keep doing that action is dispicable. Switch to F/T. You were trying to look out for your snakes, but in the meantime you commited animal cruelty.

[Nate]

The fact that you crushed the rodents face and feet before feeding is absolutely awful.

I think you've misread...see below

Maybe people are thinking that I did this before these rodents were presented to the animals? I'm not sure but I think I have made it pretty clear that the rodents were under restraint from the snakes with the exception of their feet ,claws, etc. I stand firm by position on this issue but your soapbox is always welcome : )

[BPelizabeth]

Just Sticking them in the freezer

Don't get me wrong....I do not condone that. Just not everyone and every company is on the up and up. Nor does every company have the animals best in mind.

Totally for another thread...agreed. But I don't think I can take anymore threads like this. Im starting to get snappy with the hubby....

[Chocolate Muffin's]

The fact that you crushed the rodents face and feet before feeding is absolutely awful. I feel that it was extremely inhumane and cruel. I dont completely disagree with live feeding, but the fact that you mamed the rodents and put them in extreme pain before the feeding is awful. If your going to do that to the rodent then feed F/T. Live feeding is natural but once you step in and mame the prey, its awful. Yes your looking out for your snake, but you can easily solve that by feeding F/T. Your snake doesnt benefit for eating live. The action of feeding live was purely for your own entertainment and benefit. You cruely tortured those rodents and to keep doing that action is dispicable. Switch to F/T. You were trying to look out for your snakes, but in the meantime you commited animal cruelty.

Before you start making accusations, you need to get your facts straight. You are making grossly incorrect statements, and are clearly uninformed as to the nature of my position. First of all, I at no time tortured any animals. I didn’t crush any rodents prior to feeding and responded to the rodents aggression only after they were under suppression from the snake – read the thread if you want to contribute to the discussion.

I will continue to feed live, and I will react appropriately (and humanely) if ever any rodent poses a threat to my animals, but they are the priority. If you have an intelligent argument for feeding F/T then that’s fine. I don’t need to justify my desire to feed live food. This is what I chose to do, and I will do so with or without the approval of anyone.

Furthermore, I don’t get any benefit from feeding live other than been fascinated because I had never done it before. Just to remind you, these rodents are going to die – they are going to be eaten. This is what happens in nature and it’s what happens every day to millions of animals across the planet. And guess what? Animals do cruel things to one another in nature, ever seen an episode of Animal Planet or National Geographic? Get it together. Read the whole thread in its entirety and respond once you can add something relative to the debate.

[WingedWolfPsion]

I have no idea why folks think that feeding live will make it more difficult to feed FT in the future.
I usually offer all of my breeders a live meal after they have been fasting for breeding or egg-laying. It stimulates their appetite more readily. After that, though, they go right back to FT without an issue.

I have had a few snakes turn finicky after they started breeding, but they began refusing FT on their own, and I only fed them live as a last resort--once I did they continued to refuse FT, and remain picky eaters. Sometimes happens with breeder males.

In most cases, the occasional live meal does absolutely nothing in terms of conditioning a snake not to want FT. They'll most likely take FT next week without an issue.

It's not necessary to damage the rodent's claws to prevent it from scratching. At rat's nails can't penetrate a snake's scales. It's only cruel to hurt them in that fashion.

I do understand your desire to protect your snake, but there is no reason to be unnecessarily cruel to the feeder rodents. Hurting a conscious animal without any anaesthetic is terribly cruel--can you honestly imagine the pain of having your feet and face crushed in metal tongs? Pre-kill the rodents if you feel the need to protect your snake. Served up still twitching in reflex, they will be just as fascinated by a freshly dead rodent as they are by a live one.

[Chocolate Muffin's]

I have no idea why folks think that feeding live will make it more difficult to feed FT in the future.
I usually offer all of my breeders a live meal after they have been fasting for breeding or egg-laying. It stimulates their appetite more readily. After that, though, they go right back to FT without an issue.

I have had a few snakes turn finicky after they started breeding, but they began refusing FT on their own, and I only fed them live as a last resort--once I did they continued to refuse FT, and remain picky eaters. Sometimes happens with breeder males.

In most cases, the occasional live meal does absolutely nothing in terms of conditioning a snake not to want FT. They'll most likely take FT next week without an issue.

It's not necessary to damage the rodent's claws to prevent it from scratching. At rat's nails can't penetrate a snake's scales. It's only cruel to hurt them in that fashion.

I do understand your desire to protect your snake, but there is no reason to be unnecessarily cruel to the feeder rodents. Hurting a conscious animal without any anaesthetic is terribly cruel--can you honestly imagine the pain of having your feet and face crushed in metal tongs? Pre-kill the rodents if you feel the need to protect your snake. Served up still twitching in reflex, they will be just as fascinated by a freshly dead rodent as they are by a live one.

Thanks for the tip. What is the best way to PK humanely? I have heard about Co2, some say head thump (which I don't like) and I've heard tonight that freezing them works. What do you suggest? Do you think I could ask the store to PK? Probably not I bet.