spider x spider

[OhhWatALoser]

I wonder if it's a similar gene to the Jag gene in carpets..
Both are said to have head 'wobble' or twisting issues in some snakes, 'Super' jags (leucistics) either die in the egg or shortly after hatching.

Has anyone here seen a 'super' spider dead in the egg? Was it leucistic?

No one has seen a super spider, or atleast admitting it, and it safe to say that a super spider if it exists, just looks like a normal spider.

and just so everyone knows all these are guesses... there is no public proof of any of this.
1. they die in the egg
2. they get reabsorbed
3. they just simply don't exist
4. they do exist

i did put sex linked down but, now i just thought about it, and yea sex linked doesn't work, because a male spider would make all its female offspring spiders... so i think we would notice that trend.

Aaron i would highly doubt they are out there in secret, people do bubblebee to bubblebee breedings in hopes of killer bees, plus im sure when spider gene came out 10 years ago people were doing spider x spider alot, and i think by now someone would of noticed something.

its not crazy to think there are other genes that don't happen, i mean jags in carpets, dwarfism in humans, it happens.

truth is there no real proof of any of it tho, I try to think in terms of statistics. and even that, I have no real numbers, so i guess its just thinking in terms of trends.

[AaronP]

Just because you don't have the actual proof in front of you doesn't mean it isn't true.

You're kidding, right? The proof is what makes it true. We're not talking about Big Foot here.

Let's say you are an established breeder that was in early on the Spider. You breed your first male spider to a ton of normals and produce a bunch of spiders. You keep most of your females. As soon as they are ready, you breed them back to your original male spider.

The vast majority of those spiders produced from the Spider X Spider breeding will have been bred again in various projects. If there were a homozygous spider (odds say 25% of the Spider X Spider would have been homozygous) out there, it would have been found out some time ago. Not to hard to figure out that every clutch produced all had the spider gene.

That's assuming you hit on those odds though, which you can very well miss.

Prime example: Albino x Het. Albino. I am friends with a popular breeder in this industry, one year he bred 4 Het. Albino females (Proven Het Albino females) to an Albino male (Whom is also Proven). Between the 4 girls he gets roughly 28 eggs, come hatching time all 28 are Het Albinos, not a single Albino out of 28 eggs. Now "Odds" dictate that he could have had 14 Albinos yet he missed on the odds 28 times in a row.

He actually inspired me to attempt again to prove my P. Het Albino girl to be Het. Albino, when she didn't prove out last year with a perfect 6 Egg clutch with an awesome sex ratio (2.4). Does that mean she isn't Het. Albino? No, I'm trying again this year, and hopefully I'll get another clutch of 6, maybe more and if I get lucky maybe I'll hatch an albino, but if I don't I'll write her off as a normal.

But again that's 1:2 Odds, not 1:4. That may not seem like a big difference but when our average clutch size is 5-6 Eggs, that's a lot of room to miss out on the odds.

Now none of that takes into play the fact that "Stuff Happens" meaning, animals die, don't breed, get injured and can't be bred.

But this is all hear say, I want to see the facts or at least someone reputable to come forth and say it, until then I'll consider the Spider to be a dominate morph.

Aaron i would highly doubt they are out there in secret, people do bubblebee to bubblebee breedings in hopes of killer bees, plus im sure when spider gene came out 10 years ago people were doing spider x spider alot, and i think by now someone would of noticed something

I highly doubt there is a Homozygous spider, but I also doubt that the Homozygous Spider is "Lethal". I'm open to both ideas though, I just want to see the evidence that backs that which no one has brought forth.

They keep comparing it to Carpet Jags and Womas but both of those can be spotted in the egg, how many people have come forth sand said "I bred spider x spider "X" amount of times and "Y" amount of times I have had "Z" number of dead in the egg offspring that I believe to be homozygous spiders".

[OhhWatALoser]

Can anyone link to this super pinstripe, or where they heard about it?

My BF and I were just discussing a super pin, and super spider a few weeks back. This topic is very interesting, I look forward to reading the responses!

there no link, and it just looks like a normal pinstripe, email brian yourself, he'll tell you "we're pretty confident we have proven the pinstripe gene co-dominate" mayb if enough people bug him he'll finally post something public, but then again i don't remember if it was a forum or what but i remember reading about it over 2 years ago.

[AaronP]

there no link

Right no link, but I believe he said it in a Reptile Radio show, I'll make a clip later tonight if I have time and put it up.

[OhhWatALoser]

I highly doubt there is a Homozygous spider, but I also doubt that the Homozygous Spider is "Lethal". I'm open to both ideas though, I just want to see the evidence that backs that which no one has brought forth.

They keep comparing it to Carpet Jags and Womas but both of those can be spotted in the egg, how many people have come forth sand said "I bred spider x spider "X" amount of times and "Y" amount of times I have had "Z" number of dead in the egg offspring that I believe to be homozygous spiders".

"super dwarf" humans don't make it out of the womb alive. tho yes there is a fetus. but i think it aborts itself... point is deadly genes are weird, super jags crawl right out of the egg and die, i've herd of one report where a super jag was spotted alive over night but was dead in the morning. sadly he took no pics... but pearls, people have had those live up to a month. so the cause of death has got to be entirly different. whos to say the spider doesn't act different.

but like you said there no proof of eigher. and i was kinda playing the devil's advocate personally, i just think its a dominate gene also. but if other evidence comes forth, mayb i'l change my mind.

mayb see take a big group of spider x spider breedings at see what % of spider we hit on, is it closer to 75% or 66%? but getting enough pairings to make a reasonable guess would be the impossible part to me.

[AaronP]

but like you said there no proof of eigher. and i was kinda playing the devil's advocate personally, i just think its a dominate gene also. but if other evidence comes forth, mayb i'l change my mind.

mayb see take a big group of spider x spider breedings at see what % of spider we hit on, is it closer to 75% or 66%? but getting enough pairings to make a reasonable guess would be the impossible part to me.

Right, again I'm not saying it's impossible I just find it unlikely, but I am open to whatever the evidence points to.

[irishanaconda]

honestly i also think that there is no super sipder... fatal or not, but rumors are well known to spread with no direct facts. im sure the breeding has been done from a spider and spider to see if there was a super.... and have had no luck or there would be alot more posts in threads about it (IMO). like alot of people on here i have been cruisin bp.net for a couple of years and never came acrossed anyone stating there is a "super" form. i guess ill try to call bhb and ask if they have a super spider for sale lol... i have bought stuff from bryan before and man that guy is one busy person but lets see if his staff knows ne thing about it... brb

[irishanaconda]

ok i just called and brian was the one just to answer right away. we talked for a little bit but he just said that honestly it just hasnt been proved yet. his pinstripe that was proven almost 100% that it was super, was from multiple females that he bred his male pin to out of somthing like 28 eggs all came out pins. he stated that he believed that there could possibly be a "super" spider but the gene is a bit geneticly quirky, (in a weak sort of way) that might be a cause for some people that have tried it and have deaths in the egg or have not hatched any out.... so pretty much were still in the same place where its not been proven or disproven. lol

[OhhWatALoser]

ok i just called and brian was the one just to answer right away. we talked for a little bit but he just said that honestly it just hasnt been proved yet. his pinstripe that was proven almost 100% that it was super, was from multiple females that he bred his male pin to out of somthing like 28 eggs all came out pins. he stated that he believed that there could possibly be a "super" spider but the gene is a bit geneticly quirky, (in a weak sort of way) that might be a cause for some people that have tried it and have deaths in the egg or have not hatched any out.... so pretty much were still in the same place where its not been proven or disproven. lol

your mixing up 2 things. spiders and pinstripes

[stratus_020202]

Aaron i would highly doubt they are out there in secret, people do bubblebee to bubblebee breedings in hopes of killer bees, plus im sure when spider gene came out 10 years ago people were doing spider x spider alot, and i think by now someone would of noticed something.

What's a bubblebee? Lol. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Did you mean bumblebee?