Why We Are Idiots For Using Kingsnake.com To Price Our Animals

[Wonka]

Type B: The other kind of person is IMHO the majority. These are the rebellious under achievers who pretty much get into snakes because they are considered taboo, or not accepted by the main stream. They CRAVE attention. While their intentions may be good to start they almost always in the long run hold their own "cool points" at a much higher regard then the snakes health and future. Once the novelty or attention wares off, the snake is screwed.

There are so many Type B people that get a snake on a whim, then a week later because they are broke and generally unsuccessful in life, come up with the grand idea of breeding snakes to make a quick fortune. They are too lazy and / or stupid to do the math or the research necessary to figure out what all is entailed, and they just jump into it head first. They do this by spending every dime they have at the moment on one or two below average XXX ball pythons.

Wow Thanks there Mike you just managed to insult more than half of our hobby (you even say in your opinion the majority) by calling them worthless losers. Just... wow. You have to realize with the hobby as it stands WE type B people have the same captivating dreams as you (I'm assuming by your tone you consider yourself in the type A plan) type A's. Not necessarily for the cash but we have our creative urges too, and often much better intentions. When I go to a reptile show and watch who's getting into morphs it's a heck of a lot more type B losers than snobs.

The only reason there is any demand for morphs is because BOTH "type A" and "type B" people both imagine what they can do, and take a big step and make the investment torwards a positive future. Do you breed and sell your animals? Because the tone in just those two paragraphs is like Sam Walton of Walmart hopping on the intercom at one of his stores and calling their customers a bunch of "retards". The snakes aren't just to be cool, as you'd like to insult a lot of the fringe with the stigma, but the fact that the animals are just that cool.

I guarantee many of the type B's (myself included) spend alot more time actually handling the animals and appreciating them as more for their coolness than as an investment, and I'd consider the actual social quality of those animals more worth my attention and my share of the market than even a prettier morph from someone who's snakes are terrified of people because they were a product made not out of facination but rather as an income (we've all seen you tube video's showing and that personality is shared by the majority of animals produced in mass production.) How many reputable breeders let their animals out of their cubicles to excersize and explore should they desire to? I sure as heck wouldn't pay top dollar for a stunning example of say a lesser who just sat there like a piece of furniture (I'd download the picture and save 500 bucks) but I wouldn't mind buying a brown pastel who was curious and actually an entertaining pet.

As far as the recent argument comparing Balls to dogs, it's partially relevant but it's a way off considering the natures of both the animals and the consumers.

Dogs are harder to have multiples of for the average consumer, making selective breeding a bit more difficult. The person spending over a grand on a quality dog line is buying a pet (and more often than not status symbol). The average consumer of expensive dog morph isn't primarily in the market for that animal to make more of them or mix it with other genes to create new things.

Balls are easy to house in multiples (although caging and incidentals are the true goldmine in the reptile industry (even in larger degree than the rest of the pet industry). The majority of those into Ball Pythons seem to me to be more into the coolness of the animals than the status symbol involved (well at least us type B losers who are generally unsuccessful at life regardless of what some "type A" people would say). The consumer of royal morphs is 9 times out of 10 looking to produce more themselves creating an excess, and since balls don't exhaust themselves in their consumption (rather the opposite they multiply) the prices can only be expected to plummet. Now you could slow this effect by not selling males (quicker to breed and can create alot more stock quicker), or by culling all but the best to really improve the lines... but until neutering royals is as easy as it is with dogs you can't expect prices to stabilize to the point where profits on invested time/capital remain consistently high on the same morphs. How are prices going to stabilize when supply just keeps going up while demand just goes down? I may be lazy or stupid but even I understand that fallacy in economic thinking. After the big dog and second wave in morph producers make back their investment on new morphs housing and feeding breeders has such a low capital upkeep compared to the prices their clutches can go for even without single mutations being in the 500-1k price range (which I know many type A's would find astonishing with their general success in life but is often out of affordable range of the type B hobbyist which makes up a large share of the royal single-mutation market).

It is still easy to get an unusually high rate of return on capital investment in the ball industry if you are generally successful at life and understand the market and how to play it. That is why the market has so many players on so many levels. How much was made on the pinstripe craze? Even if they were now selling for 50 bucks those who knew the market and were there at the right time made a killing... same with many of the new morphs.

Those who are "lazy or stupid" and can't figure out how to either fill a niche or create one in the market will be standing there wondering why they can't still pull in 500% a year or more on their initial investment but the ones who "make good decisions" will realize that mood rings and pet rocks just don't command the same prices any more. Either way those who love the hobby and the animals, and who strive to create quality and are in it for that creative aspect, will be happy regardless of the outcome as long as the hobby still exists.

Just remember the market for Balls is as big as it is because prices DO drop where the majority of those in the hobby, us Type B's, can actually afford to participate in it. You only get 2k for a pinstripe because people know they can turn that around and later sell them for 500 then (what now 300?) but they have more to breed so their investment still pays off (granted there is the niche in the market that just has to have the morphs for their own collections... the quintessential type A type, but that is as you say not the majority of the market for your "product".) It's not like Ball pythons wear out as fast as say designer clothing, once I have a pinstripe unless I am trying to breed en masse I'm not necessarily going to buy another at the same price.

I apologize for my rambling my boyfriend is already chuckling at me for it, but this sort of topic is a passionate topic since it's putting a price (and therefore exclusivity) on beauty. And it seems people are more concerned with their profits in it as an industry (even if it places others just as passionate in the hobby out of the runnings on working with the more beautiful pieces in this fabulous jigsaw) than the side of the hobby that the passionate hobbyist could (in alot of my type B mentality) be focusing on..... trying to spread the beauty... the best genes... the "quality" in the genetics to raise up the gene pool of the species as a whole. We as a collective passionate bunch have shaped the whole face of the ball python species. Being part of that experience means more to me than a dollar sign. Being the unsuccessful and lazy type B that I am if I manage to just break even at this hobby, and enjoy sharing the passion with others in the meantime even if it means selling the beautiful well adjusted animals I produce at low prices just to be able to move my extras, I consider it a great success.

And even if I disdain the capitalistic cancer that runs this world and am considered unsuccessful by many, I am part of a big niche in your market. I plan on creating beauty with what I can afford to work with, I plan on sharing that beauty. I appreciate a browned out pastel for the magnificent animal that shares this existance with me, not as a less valuable piece of property that ruins the "value" my more beautiful creations are "worth". I am not alone. I AM Joe Schmoe, and there are alot more like me. If you don't want to cater to me and my value as a consumer... providing the "product" I seek at a price I'm willing to pay for it... I ask that at least you don't go insulting me blaming me and those like me for hurting your success in this "industry".

Please do your research on who your consumer actually is before you call the majority of them idiots and blame them for hurting your enterprise. I would rather buy a "lesser quality" animal from someone I'm proud to share a hobby with rather than a smoking animal at a fantastic price from someone I wouldn't feel 100 % happy inviting to my dinner table. Most of the herpers I know are the same way... a little free market research for ya.

Sorry to run off the tracks on this thread, if it was in the business forum rather than (whichever forum it's in now I've been editing this so long I've forgotten!) forum I would have just ignored it. No offense meant to anyone consider it a market survey if you must! Although in a lot of industries talk of getting together as a collective and setting prices would be considered illegal .

Sorry to ramble, I apologize for boring you with a novel, with love peace and camaraderie for all who share my obsession ... Long live Joe Schmoe!