Why We Are Idiots For Using Kingsnake.com To Price Our Animals

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Why are Ball Python prices constantly crashing? Why can't the prices stabilize or even go up like most other pets? Popular breeds of dogs for instance. Their prices are going UP!!! Why doesn't this happen with Ball Pythons?

I have come to the conclusion that it's not kingsnake.com at all. It's the nature of the beast.

Here it is from beginning to end.

The Breeder that creates a new morph if planned right sells the first of their offspring at top dollar (super inflated price) to the big dogs. $25k for the XXX morph. Once the top dogs have them and have had time to create their own babies from breeding projects with the XXX ball, the price quickly drops each year but then stabilizes to what should be the normal retail price of $500 - $1000 dependent on quality of the morph.

Why should $500-$1000 be the normal retail price? Because it is the bottom point where the breeder is making enough money for their time and expenses to be worth it. Anything less then this amount and it would not be worth it to the breeder. Most people who really want this XXX ball can save and in time will be able to afford and be willing to spend the $500 - $1000 for it. There is PLENTY of demand to keep the prices between $500 - $1000 indefinitely.

This is when the consumers screw everything up. IMHO, there are 2 kinds of people that own snakes.

Type A: These are snake nerds who for the most part are intelligent, nerdy, successful people who are fascinated with snakes for whatever reason. Generally speaking they take good care of their animals, and make good decisions in life because they have good intentions, and are willing to do what it takes. Some of these people keep snakes just as pets, and others choose to breed either to make a few bucks or to try and make a particular morph that they want. Some of them are even able to make a good living out of breeding snakes.

Type B: The other kind of person is IMHO the majority. These are the rebellious under achievers who pretty much get into snakes because they are considered taboo, or not accepted by the main stream. They CRAVE attention. While their intentions may be good to start they almost always in the long run hold their own "cool points" at a much higher regard then the snakes health and future. Once the novelty or attention wares off, the snake is screwed.

There are so many Type B people that get a snake on a whim, then a week later because they are broke and generally unsuccessful in life, come up with the grand idea of breeding snakes to make a quick fortune. They are too lazy and / or stupid to do the math or the research necessary to figure out what all is entailed, and they just jump into it head first. They do this by spending every dime they have at the moment on one or two below average XXX ball pythons.

If the snakes are lucky and don't die, they are often able to successfully produce below average / pathedic XXX babies. Of course when the babies come they don't have the proper housing. The keeper can not afford to feed themselves (because their parents just kicked them out) let alone hungry baby snakes. They certainly don't have the money needed to fix any of the problems, or the will to make the money to fix the problems. Investing in advertising? Please!

The cool idea has now turned into a major headache. They are tired of the hassles of getting rats and the tanks haven't been cleaned in weeks. The friends have already seen the snakes, and are just no longer interested. Just as they started, they decide on the spur of the moment without any real though to SELL SELL SELL for rent, groceries, beer money, or whatever. So they use tools LIKE KINGSNAKE to dump their animals as quickly as possible.

Unfortunately you have lots of Type A people who see these under priced adds, and do the traditional nerdy thing and give into the lower pricing pressure that the Type B people are applying, and drop their prices too. Nerds don't usually make the best salesmen either.... Sure their morphs are excellent examples of the morph compared to type B, but usually they don't have the confidence or the skill set to stand up to people and hold out for a just price. Granted, some snake nerds can and do sell.... In fact they are some of the biggest names out there right now. But most can't.

Then you have another clutch born by another Type B person (don't forget, they are the majority) and the prices drop even lower.

This repeats itself many times over just a year or two. The XXX ball is now averaging around $250 - $350 dependent on quality.

The big breeders at this point even though they know what their animals are worth have to make some tough decisions. Their snakes are of superior quality, and they do have some customers that are still buying a little, but their babies start piling up. They have already made their money back, maybe even turned a profit. Sooner or later they have no choice but to openly drop their prices, or do secret deals for way below retail just to get rid of them. After all they have to make room for the new AAA morph they just acquired.

Bam! the market is permanently ruined for the XXX ball. Prices drop to $150 to $200 regardless of quality.

Now how can you say it is kingsnakes fault? Yes they are a tool used often times in a BAD way, but they certainly are NOT the basis of the problem.

[sg1trogdor]

Makes sense to me. But Colin has a point also.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

LOL, this took me forever to write, I didn't mean to make this another thread, it was intended to be a reply to colins thread. My computer stated acting up so i copy and pasted into a new window. Mods, can you fix this?

[Hulihzack]

Nerds don't usually make the best salesmen either.... Sure their morphs are excellent examples of the morph compared to type B, but usually they don't have the confidence or the skill set to stand up to people and hold out for a just price. Granted, some snake nerds can and do sell.... In fact they are some of the biggest names out there right now. But most can't.

I agree with everything except this generalization. I was a shy nerd who (I thought) would make a terrible salesman until I started working at a reptile store. Turns out it's pretty easy and actually quite enjoyable. When the time comes for me to sell my own snakes, I -can not wait- to tell people about them and make some sales.

Additionally, I've heard of PLENTY of "snake nerds" who will hold onto an animal and sell it for more as an older animal rather than dump it for a low price. I will be one of these people as well.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think there are a few more Type A's out there than you are accounting for.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think there are a few more Type A's out there than you are accounting for.

Nerds don't usually make the best salesmen either.... Sure their morphs are excellent examples of the morph compared to type B, but usually they don't have the confidence or the skill set to stand up to people and hold out for a just price. Granted, some snake nerds can and do sell.... In fact they are some of the biggest names out there right now. But most can't.

[cornball252]

I believe both hold true to some points... But I do not believe we should go off of other peoples prices.. Whether it be kingsnake or not... That is just stupid. Kingsnake is Over rated IMHO.

[Hulihzack]

But most can't.

Right. That's the part that I'm hung up on. I just have a really hard time believing that a true snake nerd who values their animals would rip themselves off. Maybe I'm mistaken.

[wilomn]

You found the chink in the armor of private breeders.

IF it's a hobby, price is not relevant.

IF it's a business, price is all that IS important.

It can't be both.

IF you're complaining about price, you're a business.

It's that simple to this simple mind.

All the rest is justification for NOT wanting to be known as a business when, in fact, that is exactly what you are.

There is not a thing wrong with being a business. Most of us either do now or plan to sell snakes in the future.

I find it difficult to define a hobby, something one does for pleasure, with a business, something one does for compensation.

I know a guy who keeps a bunch of orchids. He built a greenhouse for them. They're neat. He spends a lot of time with as well as on them. As far as I know, he's never sold one, he's never mentioned anything about wanting to make his investment back or that he wanted to make enough by selling little orchids to buy other orchids.

That's a hobby.

He breeds snakes too. Really nice ones. He sells them for money. I think it's a business he likes a lot but I, just me, don't consider that a hobby. There are different expectations from his interaction between his two interests.

This probably holds true for a great many.

My definitions of hobby and business may be a little more black and white than some.

I'm not claiming I'm right or anyone is wrong, just clarifying and expanding my prior statement.

[omnibus2]

Interesting post, thanks. The hypothetical situation you mentioned is scary.

So basically, it is that people are putting gradually lower and lower prices on kingsnake.com to compete with each other, and this is what is killing the market?

[rabernet]

Would you not buy the least expensive snake tho if they were of the exact same quality?

Because I'm SO picky about the animals that I add - it's rare to find two animals of the same quality to comparison shop. As an example, how many lessers have YOU seen that look like this?



That's a VERY unique look - I have been looking for "the" lesser that I wanted to add to my collection for over a year. I finally found him. So, there is no "comparable" lesser for me to comparison shop. I know what I want, and I'm willing to pay for what I want.

And again - I don't believe that a bright yellow pastel that holds its colors into adulthood should be priced the same as a deep orange baby that's going to turn into a turd brown adult. And I won't sell my bright yellow pastels for the same price as the turd brown pastels. If that means that I have to keep all my bright yellow pastels for myself, I have no heartache about doing so. But somehow, I don't think that's going to be a problem.