Pairing up co-dom/doms to normals

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Since cinnamon an Mojave are dominant pattern morphs, I would assume they would dominate the "normal" pattern.

Dominant/co-dominant just means that you only need one copy of the mutant gene for it to express (versus "recessive," in which case both alleles need to be mutated for the animal to look different from wild-type).

Just because a gene is "dominant/co-dominant" doesn't mean that the pattern of the mutant babies won't be influenced by the wild-type parent's pattern.

[rabernet]

Dominant/co-dominant just means that you only need one copy of the mutant gene for it to express (versus "recessive," in which case both alleles need to be mutated for the animal to look different from wild-type).

Just because a gene is "dominant/co-dominant" doesn't mean that the pattern of the mutant babies won't be influenced by the wild-type parent's pattern.

But in those two examples - cinnamons and mojaves - 90% of the the ones you see have the same consistent patterns, no matter what the normal is that you pair them up to. With mojo's it's the key hole patterns (where normals have alien heads). The codominant PATTERN of the mojo is what expresses itself. Pastels are less pattern dependent, which is why the pattern of the normal can influence the pattern of the pastel more than it can in a mojo or cinnamon.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

I agree with you Rabernet -- I was disagreeing slightly with the use of the terms "dominant/co-dominant" as "dominating" the normal pattern, and therefore not being affected by the normal pattern.

Pastel is just as "co-dominant" as mojave (which is to say, it's probably "incomplete dominant" instead of "co-dominant" if we really wanna nit-pick), but it does seem that the pattern (and possibly the color as well ..?) of the normal parent will have an effect on the pastel offspring, from what folks have been saying.

[rabernet]

I agree with you Rabernet -- I was disagreeing slightly with the use of the terms "dominant/co-dominant" as "dominating" the normal pattern, and therefore not being affected by the normal pattern.

Pastel is just as "co-dominant" as mojave (which is to say, it's probably "incomplete dominant" instead of "co-dominant" if we really wanna nit-pick), but it does seem that the pattern (and possibly the color as well ..?) of the normal parent will have an effect on the pastel offspring, from what folks have been saying.

Gotcha! Yes - I agree that the normal parent will influence the pastel offspring, and I also believe that the general color and blushing on mojos and cinnies, in this example, can be influenced by the normal parent, and less so on the pattern, since those two morphs seem to be more pattern dominant and the pastel is less pattern dominant.

It's one reason I selected my normal girls to grow up a few years ago, so carefully - so that I could work with selectively breeding my mutations.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Yes, you have some pretty "normals!"

I only have a couple -- I'm super-picky about wild-types as well -- and I'm now kind of debating whether to breed my bee to the largest girl, who is exceptionally dark. The plus side is that she's a big, tame tank ... I'd just hate to throw a humongous clutch of kind of ugly bees and pastels

[rabernet]

Yes, you have some pretty "normals!"

I only have a couple -- I'm super-picky about wild-types as well -- and I'm now kind of debating whether to breed my bee to the largest girl, who is exceptionally dark. The plus side is that she's a big, tame tank ... I'd just hate to throw a humongous clutch of kind of ugly bees and pastels

See, I'd pair a mojo or a cinnamon with a darker female - do you have either of those?

[Serpent_Nirvana]

See, I'd pair a mojo or a cinnamon with a darker female - do you have either of those?

Unfortunately I don't (well, I do have a mojo, but she's a girl ). Right now the only males I have are an albino, a bumblebee, a lesser and a "dinker." The dinker is kind of mojo-looking -- but the only one of those males that's breeding age/size is the bee ...

... And I just found a picture of the sable x pastel ("mudball") -- I know she's not a sable but oh man, that is one *ugly* snake! Maybe I should try and find something else to breed her to ...

Here's a picture of this girl with a light normal, so you can see how dark she is:

[rabernet]

Yeah, I don't think I'd choose her for the bee. Spiders might look ok, but the bees and pastels might end up being darker.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Hmm, well, I just discovered that my "female" Harlequin-type is, in fact, a male O.o So I think I've found her boyfriend!

... Now I just gotta hope he proves genetic

[JimNAZ]

Yeah I have a somewhat dark spider with a bit of a greenish hue to his dark coloration. I will find out this season (hopefully) if he passes much/all of that on. Is it a given to expect that this will happen? Is it still just a roll of the dice and we can try to better the odds with a lighter colored normal?

I have heard/seen dark pastels can still throw bright offspring even if the other parent is not light colored.

Jim