Quote Originally Posted by Oxylepy View Post
I'd like to see proof of this as well. Everyone likes to throw concepts like gene location (allele) around, and the only way to prove it would be to prove that without any doubt you could NEVER produce a Cinny Super Black Pastel or a Black Pastel Super Cinnamon.

Oh and to define my own terms we'd need to see breeding of Cinny Black Pastels together only producing supers (Black Cinnys, Super Cinnys and Super Blacks) and all of their offspring when bred to any snake would always be only one of the two traits. I think 100 snakes produced this way would remove any reasonable doubt.

Alternatively we could map the genetics of ball pythons out and prove it that way.

Similar to the whole Lucy Complex and Lucys being produced from Phantom crosses, even though the Phantom's super is entirely different. Again we'd need to see if it were possible to produce a Super Phantom BEL the offspring of which being Phantoms and BELs and the offspring of the BELs being Phantoms and whatever the other morph was that was in the Super Phantom BEL.

I'm not trying to be a nay sayer, but there needs to be solid evidence to support claims of traits existing on the same gene locus.
Ever heard of dilute genes?

The Phantom/Mystic seem to be a dilute version of the het BEL gene and thus when combined with another het BEL makes a BEL, but when combined with another dilute het BEL make a completely different super.

As far as crossing the cinny and black pastel its been done and the super looks the same as the super of the black pastel or the cinny. Same gene different lines, IMO.