TOFFEE Ball PROVEN

[AlanDavidExotics]

Rabernet.

On my screen it says your an ADMIN and also Waltah a MOD and a bunch of others.So I just generalized ADMIN/MODS (im not saying you two, just giving an example of the first 2 names that I saw that wasnt JUDY'S)...I also said HINTING a mistake.. I didnt say Judy called so-n-so a liar. My message was not directed at any one personally (Judy, You, or Waltah). Its only purpose was to show that almost 7 pages of post were almost all negative. Obviously, not every post!!! There are a bunch of other supporters!!! Im sure a bunch of people feel the way I do. (maybe maybe not). There were a bunch of people that also said. "they'd like to see pics as it grows" which I FULL agree with!!! I think comments like those are what helps the community to grow... not comments like "You got scammed"

P.S. Im not going to reread the 7 other pages to find the exact quotes or who the posters are.

[Turbo Serpent]

Its only purpose was to show that almost 7 pages of post were almost all negative. Obviously, not every post!!! There are a bunch of other supporters!!!

Until it looks like the toffee not many people are going to believe it, that is how I feel and I am sure many other of the 'Pessimists' feel as well.

No negativity just disbelief as someone else said earlier.

[AlanDavidExotics]

Until it looks like the toffee not many people are going to believe it, that is how I feel and I am sure many other of the 'Pessimists' feel as well.

No negativity just disbelief as someone else said earlier.

I totally understand/agree with that... Thats the same way I felt!!! I just didnt like all the other comments about the OP needing to get his money back, return the snake, or even THATS NOT A TOFFEE. Esp, since theres not another baby toffee to compair it to. I could understand if other pictures show toffee babies looking a lot different.

[AaronP]

Whoops See below.

[AaronP]

How many of us (SMALL TIME BREEDERS) could wait a few months, watch the color change...then post... "Here is the first Toffee... Look how the color changes over time"... realistically most (including myself) cant.

Nobody (you, me, or the next breeder) wants to hear that their 'prize project' must be wrong by people who have no idea what they're talking about... A few weeks ago I was reading a post from some saying that Justin's Lavender babies are regular albinos, because they have no purple. Its easy to mistake a baby high contrast albino and a Lavender...

If it upsets you then maybe you aren't taking everyone's level of experience into consideration? Justin is a good friend of mine and he is well aware that as hatchlings someone could easily misidentify the Lavender Albino to be a "regular" albino. That said how many people do you think could pick out a butter from a Lesser Platinum? Or a Mocha from a Normal, or a Het. Russo from a Normal? How about a real tough one; An adult axanthic that has browned out compared to a normal?

If this upsets you then you may want to re-evaluate how you perceive opinions. As far as everyone saying that his "Toffee" looks like a regular Albino, well can you blame them!? Look at it! I would NEVER in a million years guess that is a "Toffee"! And having seen Candy Balls in person, it makes it even more difficult to imagine that.

As myself and others have said before, Congrats to the OP I really hope that I'm wrong and that he does in fact have the first CB Toffee, especially in Canada, but until the pretty little bugger ages, no one will know.

[AlanDavidExotics]

Your right...Ill just stick to reading messages and keep my comments/ opinions to myself... I noticed that there are a bunch of newbies as well as some old timers here... A lot of the time newbies think they're pro's and try to give breeding advice to other newbies when the dont even have a breeder sized female yet.. makes me laugh... but oh well... Good luck on everyones clutches this season... No hard feelings... Happy Herpin

[albinosunlimited]

here Is the best way i can descride what is going on. The toffee, candys are albinos. But they are albinos that for some reason are able to make small amouts of melanin over time. hence the color change I have seen this in albino turtles I own. There are also other animals that have done this. Another example are lavander albinos they start producing small amounts of melanin which gives them the purple color as they grow.


Easy example
take 5 gallon bucket of white paint open the the can and its white as day. 2 days later add a drop of black paint not much of a differance but add a drop of paint every day in a few months your going to have gray. the animals finally stop changing when you stop adding the drops of black.

We Know that ball pythons develope more melanin as they grow thats why ligth colored or bright colored babys get darker as they grow.

This is my 2 cents take it as you want

[blackcrystal22]

here Is the best way i can descride what is going on. The toffee, candys are albinos. But they are albinos that for some reason are able to make small amouts of melanin over time. hence the color change I have seen this in albino turtles I own. There are also other animals that have done this. Another example are lavander albinos they start producing small amounts of melanin which gives them the purple color as they grow.


Easy example
take 5 gallon bucket of white paint open the the can and its white as day. 2 days later add a drop of black paint not much of a differance but add a drop of paint every day in a few months your going to have gray. the animals finally stop changing when you stop adding the drops of black.

We Know that ball pythons develope more melanin as they grow thats why ligth colored or bright colored babys get darker as they grow.

This is my 2 cents take it as you want

Though this makes sense genetically, why is it then that all other Toffee or Candy hatchlings that we have had examples of show some sort of this slight melanin production as hatchlings?
See where I'm coming from? I don't see any traces of melanin in that hatchling, which leads me to believe it's just an albino.

[Toronto Python Gurus]

The Candy and Burgundy albino look similar, but the toffee stands out. It has a much different pattern than the other two.

I agree, if you look at the pictures, the Candy and Burgundy Albino have the same pattern and colour and the Toffee has pretty much the same colour but the pattern is definately different, I don't see a snake that looks like a regular albino changing that drastically.

Maybe it's a form of T+ albino??
T+ is the Caramel Albino, I mean I guess the Toffee could be an albino T+ but then wouldn't it look more like a Caramel Albino rather than the Toffee which has no yellow at all(well the adult doesn't), unless it's possible to have more of the tyrosinase enzyme(T+) than a Caramel Albino

[blackcrystal22]

My feathers are all plucked lol... Id be heated if everyone told me my baby toffee is a only a regular albino... and maybe I should call the breeder back to get my money!!! Only because nobody has ever seen a baby TOFFEE


BELIEVE ME... I'M NOT UPSET, I'M NOT GOING TO LOOSE ANY SLEEP, THIS IS MY HOBBY... THIS IS A DEBATE... I'M A DEBATER...ITS JUST WHAT I DO.

I DONT HAVE ANY HARD FEELINGS FOR ANYONE...I WISH EVERYONE LAVENDER ALBINO PIEDS (MY DREAM SNAKE)

TALKING IN CAPS MAKES A POINT.
Calm down please.

People will simply skip over your post because your trying to yell, which is annoying. But here's the part that got me.

Only because nobody has ever seen a baby TOFFEE

Where are you getting that from? If there have been toffees produced, then people have seen the hatchling version as well. I've seen some at shows too.

This is not a debate, because it is far too one sided. Experienced breeders are saying that they see an Albino, not anything else. They provide back-up information with their theory of why it's only an Albino, so please, give us some back up information of why it is a Toffee.
IF you can prove that it is in fact a Toffee, we'd all be very happy to know that it is in fact not an albino. We're not saying "It's an albino!" because that's what we want it to be..
No one is saying that it may not turn out to be an actual Toffee, but by the way it looks and the experience present, that it doesn't look too hopeful.