changing behaviors

[Elise.m]

If you don't mind me asking, what part of California do you live in? The town I live in has a place called "The Serpentarium" I got my snake from there and most of my other supplies. Some of their employees, particularly a young kid, don't know what they're talking about. He told me that a half log and a 20g tank would be good for a baby BP. I wasted about $150 there, so if you're getting your info from there, you might want to think twice.

[fidnemed]

I'm sure we're talking about the same place, in Lodi, right? A new kid recently bought the place from the guy who had owned it for years and years. His staff seems like typical pet store staff, doesn't know much at all..... The guy that owned it before knows his stuff, sounds like he's gonna continue breeding for the store, but he has sold it to someone else.

And I'm getting my information from as many sources as possible for that exact reason, it seems that every one thinks that their way is right and everyone else's way is wrong. But few people have really convincing arguments as to why they do what they do.... (Except the ever present argument, it's easier...)

As far as housing them in a natural environment, in the wild they are not separated from each other by cage walls, but by distance, or separate holes. Does anyone know a wild bp's territory size? Everyone seems concerned about them bullying each other or competing for the same space. Couldn't I give them a second hot spot?

Yes, I'm being really hard headed about this, I just want all the info I can get. I will gladly change my setup, I just need to be convinced it really is the best for the snakes. Please tell me I'm wrong, and why, I'm eager to hear what you know....

[Elise.m]

Yep, that's the place. I won't even go there anymore, even though his feeders are cheaper than Discount Pets. They shut the store down for the entire first week of August, during that week Snickets wouldn't eat, I called them and left a message. Big surprise, they never called me back. Not even after they were open again to even check if she had made it. I utterly despise that place.

IMO, if you continue to have feeding problems, separate at least the one that's not eating to see if that's the problem. You can take the snakes to the serpentarium to have them sex them, but then again I wouldn't really trust anyone except for Bill.

[fidnemed]

I breed my own rats, so I (almost) always have feeders as well as multiple sizes, and don't have to rely on pet stores, I find them all as unreliable as the The Serpentarium has become.... If I need to buy some rats, I get them from Phil (rodents4u.com) he drives through Modesto on tuesdays, and WAY cheaper then the pet store. Also healthier too.

Kenny's "feeding problems" aren't really problems. We've been together for 4 years, and I know him. Please tell me you other snake owners have this kind of a bond with your guys? Why have a pet otherwise? He's eaten since I put the others in with him and wasn't his usual picky self about it, I'm watching him, but this post is really more about all the snakes being together, and if it's unusual for a female to combat, and how (or if I can) to safely let them do their own thing if she goes gravid and lays a clutch.

Would also like some recommendations on thermostats. Tell me about what you have and if you like it. (Or if anyone has one for sale...) If you hate it I want to know too... lol

[Vypyrz]

As far as housing them in a natural environment, in the wild they are not separated from each other by cage walls, but by distance, or separate holes. Does anyone know a wild bp's territory size? Everyone seems concerned about them bullying each other or competing for the same space. ....

In the wild they have the option of leaving a crowded burrow. You, yourself, said you were having feeding and behavioral issues since housing them together, yet, you also say that you are being hard headed and want someone to justify that it's in the best interest of your snakes to separate them. Well, the fact that you even had to start this thread is your justification. You also said you had the space and means to house a clutch of babies, yet you seem unwilling to separate the adults to even see if the behavior will change. The best advice I can give you is to sit down and contemplate what YOU think is in the best interest of your snakes. Because, for better or worse, you will have to live with your decision...



Rob

[Kaorte]

Almost everyone on here will tell you that separation is in the best interest of the snakes. Can you keep multiple snakes together? why sure you can. But in my opinion, it is not worth the risks.

They are NOT social animals. They do NOT benefit from being housed together in ANY way. The only reason I can think of for housing them together is because it is "easier" for the keeper (less equipment to buy).

No offense but you seem to think you know everything about these animals. I surely don't, and you probably don't either judging by what you have said in this thread so far.

I can tell you what is happening with your snakes though. The males have reached sexual maturity. They will combat for dominance and they probably won't stop. Do you really think this is a good environment to keep your snakes in? Fighting all the time?

Trial and error has proven to us that housing separately is more beneficial for the health and overall well being of the snakes. They are more confident eaters, more laid back and relaxed, and they don't have to compete with other snakes for the best spot in the tank.



Females don't usually combat. It is usually the males combating for the female. I do have a few questions for you. Is your female (do you even have one?) snake of proper weight to breed? If she does breed and is underweight, she could get egg bound and DIE. What would you do with the babies if they were hatched successfully? Do you have the room to keep up to 6 more snakes?

If you are just "letting nature do its thing" you are being careless. You are risking the health and safety of your animals.

As for thermostats. Get a Johnson controls or Ranco thermostat from reptile basics. This is the most crucial piece of equipment and you really must have a thermostat when running any type of heating device. If not you risk burning or COOKING your animals.

I really can't stress it enough. You are putting your snakes in quite a bit of danger by keeping them together. This is really all just my opinion but that seems to be what you are asking for, peoples opinions.

[fidnemed]

I was not aware one refusal is considered a feeding issue, and Munene ate this morning... And Kenny is more eager to eat. I'm sorry if I haven't made this clear. The combating has not happened again. And they do have the option to leave a crowded burrow in their current habitat, that is why I have provided multiple hides.

I'm sorry for sounding like a know it all, I was just trying to avoid getting basic beginner tips, I have done research and heard many different opinions. I'm here cause I'm interested in hearing more personal experience information.

Thanks for the brand recommendations, but I was looking for something more personal. Like "I have a _________, and I like/dislike it for ___________ reason."

Thanks for your input!

[Kaorte]

I have a Johnson controls thermostat and it is reliable.

Dimmers and rheostats result in temp spikes and I don't recommend them.

I don't really know what you are looking for. We state our opinions and you continue to say that everything is OK. It obviously isn't, otherwise you wouldn't have come here seeking advice. We are all here to help, not shoot you down.

[fidnemed]

I don't know about you, but I am constantly seeking advice, no matter if everything is ok or not. You guys are all very, very anti co-housing, and I figured that being the case you would all have very good reasons for this. I was hoping to pick your brains as to those reasons.

I am looking for what you are providing, (Especially Dr del, thanks!) your opinions based on your experience. Thanks for posting, I really appreciate it, I wasn't meaning to shoot you down, just trying to put as much info out there as possible, so people can form as accurate as possible responses. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[Vypyrz]

I use Ranco thermostats and haven't had any problems. All of my BP's are housed separately because they are all males, and being in the military, I know what it's like with too much testosterone in one room...


Rob