Price drops

[nixer]

I have a simple question cause I've never understood this..

If the demand is up the supply is up and the price is down.. right??
So when demand is down then supply goes down.. does the price go back up???
not always some places to choose to leave their prices lower to move them faster

Also if the demand is up but supply is down the price is up.

So I've never understood why when the supply meets demand the price doesn't hold..

because it gets to a point where everyone starts to bandwagon and start producing more of said item. just like when a new cross comes out especially with recessives

I mean we talk like there are breeder not able to sale their spiders cause there's just to many of them so they drop the price..
But to my knowledge breeders are having a hard time making enough of the base stuff to keep all their customers buying..

this also depends on areas in chicago there might not be as much demand for a specific morph as much as say texas

So that sounds like demand is up and supply is down but hold on...the price is down.. Now I'm confused cause that does hold true to the supply and demand model..

[jglass38]

I can't believe such a simple concept like supply and demand is hard to grasp. Morphs only hold their price as long as they are limited in number. I only have one normal now and when I got him I went online and checked out the morphs, the only easily available then were albinos, spiders and pastels. Pretty high prices still. Even then it was evident they were going to drop and I've waited them out as I'm not a breeder, just a pet owner. I can wait.

The breeders are screwing themselves, people paying thousands for morphs are only doing so to breed more and make money off them. You want to complain that prices drop? Who made you pay that much in the first place? I'm curious to see how many small time breeders drop out entirely as the prices continue to go down. Also you can't act like higher prices=better care because that's complete bs. I don't see anyone raising prices on normals to ensure they get good homes or even caring where the snakes go as long as cash is in hand.

I personally don't mind a bit seeing "Collection for sale" ads on Fauna and KS. Every day, more and more people decide they want to get into breeding Ball Pythons. They put zero thought into how they will afford the large costs of owning and breeding these animals. They put even less thought into how they will market themselves and their animals. When they can't sell an animal at market price, every day they drop the price a little more. After the first year or two, when they haven't made back what they have invested, they are out. Good riddance!

Here are some things to consider:

1. Breeding Ball Pythons is EXPENSIVE - I have invested a ridiculous amount of money over the past 5 years and only now am I starting to see even a little return. If you aren't prepared to spend the money that it takes, then maybe this isn't the right thing for you.

2. With the way prices are dropping, you aren't going to make your money back in a year if ever. If you can't handle that, then find another hobby that isn't as volatile. I suggest selling figurines on Ebay.

3. These are living creatures and you need to take some responsibility over what happens to them. That means you give them the best care possible you can and in my opinion, do your best to sell them to educated buyers. Now I can guarantee some will disagree with this and don't feel they need to take any responsibility over what happens after they leave your care. That is your choice. I can only speak for how I roll. Sometimes it's as simple as asking the right questions, sending a care sheet, etc. I have turned down sales because I don't believe the person will take proper care of the animal. That's my right and it helps me to sleep at night.

To address the person who I am quoting, for you to say that no breeders care where the normals go is a foolish generalization and completely false.

[JLC]

I've read a lot of this thread, but not all of it...so if I repeat something someone else has said...my apologies.

I think a primary reason the "supply & demand" point does not hold water is that we are not talking about national economics here. We're not talking about local economics either. It's not a matter of folks NEEDING certain items to get by in life and counting on other folks to produce those items.

For 98% of the people involved in this "business" of breeding and selling animals, it is a hobby. And the vast majority of those 98% have little-to-no clue about business models, price projections, market value, competition, promotion, etc etc. So...they are going to price their animals at whatever value they think best for themselves. They will usually base their prices on completely irrelevant issues...and a whole crowd of inexperienced "business people" may follow suit because if "Joebob" sells his spiders at $xx, then I'd better sell mine for less or I'll never move them.

NONE of that has anything to do with "supply & demand" driving the prices of these animals. Add on top of that the fact that we're dealing with what is essentially a LUXURY hobby....people's motivations for both buying and selling are all over the map and it will be impossible to force price trends to follow a certain desired path.

[jglass38]

One more thing that I wanted to expand on from my previous post.

If you want to have even a modest amount of success in this hobby/business, learn how to market yourself and your animals.

1. Pictures - No, not everybody has the latest digital SLR camera and a photo studio to take perfect pictures. But please, clean the crap out of the corner of the tub, learn how to focus your camera (and don't use a cell phone camera), don't take a picture of the animal with your hair leg/ass/stomach as a backdrop. It's not THAT difficult.

2. Website - If you can't spell/use correct grammar, then get someone who can to put your website together. Also, see #1 for the type of pictures that shouldn't be on your site.

3. Communication - If you are going to post an email address, then answer emails. If you are going to post a phone number, then I don't expect to hear that your voicemail is full when I call. I can name a ton of breeders that don't ever answer emails. Email is my primary form of communication. Anyone I know will tell you that if you email me, you're likely to get a response in less than 2 hours. If you want to make the sale, you have to be accessible to your customers. And by the way, if you have a personalized domain name (i.e. glassreptiles.com), then get a personalized email address. Most web hosting companies offer them for free. I'd much rather write to bob@bobsreptiles.com then to bobsreptiles@cc.mail.roadrunner.com. Sometimes it's just the little things that make the difference. Be pleasant to your customers or potential customers. Even if you think the sale is a longshot or that the person is jerking you around to compare prices, what harm is there in being nice and accomodating. Maybe your prices are slightly higher than the other guy you are being compared to. But maybe, your little touch of extra niceness sways the buyer to purchase from you.

I think these things directly correlate to your ability to get more money for an animal than Fred down the street does.

[nixer]

One more thing that I wanted to expand on from my previous post.

If you want to have even a modest amount of success in this hobby/business, learn how to market yourself and your animals.

1. Pictures - No, not everybody has the latest digital SLR camera and a photo studio to take perfect pictures. But please, clean the crap out of the corner of the tub, learn how to focus your camera (and don't use a cell phone camera), don't take a picture of the animal with your hair leg/ass/stomach as a backdrop. It's not THAT difficult.

but if i dont use my organs as a backdrop it will not attract the females of the hobby. oh yea and the super white body puts those white photo tents to shame

2. Website - If you can't spell/use correct grammar, then get someone who can to put your website together. Also, see #1 for the type of pictures that shouldn't be on your site.

huked on fonicks wurked pher me

3. Communication - If you are going to post an email address, then answer emails. If you are going to post a phone number, then I don't expect to hear that your voicemail is full when I call. I can name a ton of breeders that don't ever answer emails. Email is my primary form of communication. Anyone I know will tell you that if you email me, you're likely to get a response in less than 2 hours. If you want to make the sale, you have to be accessible to your customers. And by the way, if you have a personalized domain name (i.e. glassreptiles.com), then get a personalized email address. Most web hosting companies offer them for free. I'd much rather write to bob@bobsreptiles.com then to bobsreptiles@cc.mail.roadrunner.com. Sometimes it's just the little things that make the difference. Be pleasant to your customers or potential customers. Even if you think the sale is a longshot or that the person is jerking you around to compare prices, what harm is there in being nice and accomodating. Maybe your prices are slightly higher than the other guy you are being compared to. But maybe, your little touch of extra niceness sways the buyer to purchase from you.

you mean we have to call them and email them pics and stuff? man i thought i could be like a troll under a bridge with a webstore and just send boxes out once a week

I think these things directly correlate to your ability to get more money for an animal than Fred down the street does.

sorry for the sarcasm everyone i had to do it.
jamie is 100% right no this one. you dont have to sit on the phone or email but look at the missing persons over on fauna there is more than a handfull of ppl that just disappear. i dont know how many ppl have taken pics of stuff for sale and ive seen a urate or 2 it takes 2 seconds to straighten it out. and if your going to sell something you should be able to spell it i cant count how many ablion, cinamons, pasels, mojies, and the many other misspellings and typos. this doesnt mean you have to be able to type 100 words a minute just double check

[wilomn]

I've read a lot of this thread, but not all of it...so if I repeat something someone else has said...my apologies.

I think a primary reason the "supply & demand" point does not hold water is that we are not talking about national economics here. We're not talking about local economics either. It's not a matter of folks NEEDING certain items to get by in life and counting on other folks to produce those items.

For 98% of the people involved in this "business" of breeding and selling animals, it is a hobby. And the vast majority of those 98% have little-to-no clue about business models, price projections, market value, competition, promotion, etc etc. So...they are going to price their animals at whatever value they think best for themselves. They will usually base their prices on completely irrelevant issues...and a whole crowd of inexperienced "business people" may follow suit because if "Joebob" sells his spiders at $xx, then I'd better sell mine for less or I'll never move them.

NONE of that has anything to do with "supply & demand" driving the prices of these animals. Add on top of that the fact that we're dealing with what is essentially a LUXURY hobby....people's motivations for both buying and selling are all over the map and it will be impossible to force price trends to follow a certain desired path.

Hobbies is to businesses as apples are to oranges.

Similar yet different. Very.

When you bite into an apple you expect crisp crunchy taste.

When your orange is hard and crunchy, something just ain't right OR, you've mistaken one fruit for another and used the wrong criteria to determine what you're going to get.

[kris62901]

who deleted the post's lol

[Nate]

who deleted the post's lol

LOL. That is so funny, right?

[Jason Bowden]

In defense of the seller: dmaricle
How about a couple of years from now when spiders are selling for $100 or less.
I sold a spider male last year for $200 to a local guy. So I don't think $180 is too low.

[jglass38]

In defense of the seller: dmaricle
How about a couple of years from now when spiders are selling for $100 or less.
I sold a spider male last year for $200 to a local guy. So I don't think $180 is too low.

Not sure if it matters but it was $180 shipped.