Opinions on breeding young / small females

[boasandballs]

Aint it a shame most of the guys that have the experience to edumacate us on the odds of breeding young females and the rate of fatal or injurious mishaps is severely lacking in online forums?

lol, it's because we are all trying to save those small females. No. I have breed small females (1100-1200) grams and big females (2000-up). Now with the use of the ultrasound I can see that a female is producing follicles and thus I feel her body feels it is safe to produce young.

The female that was the smallest was 1100 grams going into the breeding season. She continued to eat very well and produced some beautiful bumble bees several years ago. I she got up over 1200 grams before she stopped eating. The following season she took the year off and them produced again each year after that. I have 2 of the babies from that first year and know where one other is and they are all doing very well.

I believe that in the wild the females would be able to eat when ever they wanted and as much as they want. They will produce follicles when they are ready to reproduce and attract a male when it is time. If it is not time, and their bodies would be in jeopardy if they were to become gravid they would not.

ps. I have only lost 1 to egg binding, one other became egg bound and now I do not breed her at all. We have aproxamatly 350 ball pythons 100+ boas, and lots other reptiles.

[Jay_Bunny]

While I'm very tempted to just throw a male in with my normal girl, I will wait. She is approaching 1500g and might actually be there right now (haven't weighed her since her last meal), but she was 1800g last season and dropped down to 1300 after laying eggs. I want her to at least 1700g (if I'm feeling particularly patient, I will wait till 1800g) before introducing a male.

Now, 1500g is a general rule for me, but if I ever have a female that I am really itching to breed and the season is starting and I put her on the scale and she weighs in at 1400g, I'm going to try and breed her.

A few people in this thread have said they have experienced smaller eggs and therefore, smaller hatchlings. My first ever hatchling weighed in at 37g at hatching. Very small little guy and I'm still struggling to get him started. I would much rather breed a medium to larger female (1400+) and get a nice sized clutch with normal sized hatchlings than get tiny babies.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Adam's post made me change my mind--I'll be waiting three years, even if my females are up to 1500 by the second year. I want to maximize the productivity of my holdback females--especially the ones I held back specifically because their dam lays 13 egg clutches. ^_^.
When I think about the potential cumulative loss over time if I don't wait...well, it's just not worth it to jump the gun.

Has anyone had a female bred under age 3 go on to produce 8 or more egg clutches?

[Damon Theis]

Adam's post made me change my mind--I'll be waiting three years, even if my females are up to 1500 by the second year. I want to maximize the productivity of my holdback females--especially the ones I held back specifically because their dam lays 13 egg clutches. ^_^.
When I think about the potential cumulative loss over time if I don't wait...well, it's just not worth it to jump the gun.

Has anyone had a female bred under age 3 go on to produce 8 or more egg clutches?

I'll let you know next year. There were three 7 egg clutches this year from females I produced, each of which where bred at 18 months. It's all in the genetics. The grand dam is a big beach...

[Wh00h0069]

An update from this breedings season. I did not do to well and only four girls produce for me. The girls weight in grams and year born were: 1200 and '07, 1600 and '06, 2500 and '05, and 2500 and '05. The two 2500 gram girls were second year producers. The 1200 gram girl laid four perfect eggs. One of the 2500 gram girls laid eight perfect eggs. The 1600 gram girl laid six eggs, but become egg-bound on the last egg. The other 2500 gram girl laid five eggs, but became egg-bound on the last three eggs. Luckily I was able to get the eggs out of the two females, and they are doing fine now. I have no idea why the two females became egg-bound, but I do not think that it has anything to do with weight or age. They were able to get the other eggs out fine, and one of the girls was 2500 grams, which is way over the suggested breeding weight.

[PythonChick]

The only female that I bred this year was a second year female. That being said, I feel like I was reading her behavior and she was showing me all the signs that she was ready to go. She weighed 1600 grams the first time I bred her, and was quite stocky for her length. She crammed in the food and kept eating up until two weeks before she ovulated. Just before she layed her eggs she weighed in at 1900 grams.

I think I read the signs right, because she produced 7 perfect eggs with no issue in mid July, and has already bounced back to around 1500 grams.

I also had another second year female I considered breeding. She was not giving me any of the same signs though, and she tried to go off food early in the season. She has hovered around 1300 grams for nearly a year now, and I did not ever really consider breeding her after observing her behavior. I think it can be done, but each animal needs to be considered as an individual, and that the general rule for a LARGE MAJORITY of females should be wait until the third year.

[wRobio]

My smallest planned breeding this year was my largest female pastel. Before I decided to breed her, I watched her eating habits for a while, and knowing that she was a really amazing eater before she was bred, I decided to let her do it. Started breeding her at 1200, she stopped eating around 1500, and laid 7 perfect eggs on October 19th. She is not back to being close to 1500, and has a few hundred grams to go before she is back to what I would call a healthy weight.

I also got a 50% poss. het ghost, who arrived at 760gms, she was a little underweight, and three months after she arrived she was up to 1350gms, and refusing food. Then she started doing a pre-ovulation soak, and wagging her tail, so I put a het ghost male in with her... Her pre-lay shed was one month ago today. So, any minute now. Her eggs look like they are going to pack up their yolks and leave if she doesn't kick them out.

[Repsrul]

What if someone had a freak of nature? A dwarf Ball Python or two that will never reach those weights? Lets say that she will still produce follicles. How would this be handled? Never try to breed because the health risk? What if it was in the wild?


It is good we all have guide lines that we follow to insure the health of our animals.

[Clear]

The problem I see with listening to breeders who do this for an income is. The sooner you get babies on the market they more competition they have which drives down prices. Why would a breeder who knows that you can breed at 1200g say so and not tell you to wait till at least 1500g? Those 300g can make you wait a few extra months! (Not saying you can breed at 1200g, i am just using those weights as a reference. Also this is not targeted to Adams post, just an over sight of pages I have seen where breeders have recommended weights.)

Adam, thanks for sharing your experience with us. Do you think that genetics played a difference at all?

[J.Vandegrift]

An update from this breedings season. I did not do to well and only four girls produce for me. The girls weight in grams and year born were: 1200 and '07, 1600 and '06, 2500 and '05, and 2500 and '05. The two 2500 gram girls were second year producers. The 1200 gram girl laid four perfect eggs. One of the 2500 gram girls laid eight perfect eggs. The 1600 gram girl laid six eggs, but become egg-bound on the last egg. The other 2500 gram girl laid five eggs, but became egg-bound on the last three eggs. Luckily I was able to get the eggs out of the two females, and they are doing fine now. I have no idea why the two females became egg-bound, but I do not think that it has anything to do with weight or age. They were able to get the other eggs out fine, and one of the girls was 2500 grams, which is way over the suggested breeding weight.

How long did you give the females to get the eggs out on their own?