Breeder, Flipper, Worser, Better?

[rabernet]

I think the answer is not a lot. I happen to be one who does (well not really a checklist). It doesn't make me any better than the other guy, but it helps me sleep better at night. I have turned down sales because I wasn't comfortable with the person wanting to buy.

I have as well. I even screen people who are adopting my normal males. I don't have an answer for Wes' original question - as he said - not sure that there is a right answer.

But if I don't know a person through the forums, I do like to know that they are prepared to take on a new baby. I can guarantee that they are feeding consistently for me, so that if they don't feed for their new owner, I can help them figure out why a consistent feeder has gone off feed.

I've got two possible het clown males (being placed as normals) that I have what I consider good homes for, with new keepers who have been sent here to prepare for their babies - but now I'm a little concerned, because these two are VERY snappy babies, and I want their first experiences to be positive. Oh the worries!!!!

[JLC]

Very good questions, Wes.

I've never personally had an issue with someone who buys animals with the intent to resell at a profit....SO LONG AS they are honest and up front about their business model and that the well being of the animals involved take precedent over profit. Of course, we can't always KNOW that such is the case, but we can make judgment calls based on how such a person behaves in general.

The same is true of breeders. Just because someone is breeding the animals doesn't automatically raise them to some higher level of credibility. Breeders can (and do, sometimes!) keep their animals in deplorable conditions and conduct their business with no other motive than pure profit.

Flippers can respect and even love the animals they work with. Breeders can be greedy jerks. What counts is personal integrity and how they care for the animals....not their particular methods of acquiring the animals and passing them on to the public.

I DO agree with Jamie...that when you go through a trusted breeder you know, your chances of getting superior quality animals is much higher because such a breeder is careful and works on always improving the bloodlines of his animals and has detailed histories for all his animals. But morally and ethically speaking, I don't have anything against either business practice.

Regarding the seller's responsibility to insure the animals go to good homes... That's a much harder question. When one just has a few animals to rehome each year...it might not be such a big deal to carefully screen buyers...but what about those who must sell hundreds of babies? What about those who MUST sell a certain number of animals each year just to break even and pay the bills on their facilities? How could they possibly have time to screen each buyer and how could they afford to turn away everyone who might not meet some arbitrary level of acceptability?

Should a car dealer be held responsible for not screening those who come onto his lot and drive away in a new car? What if they get drunk a week later and kill someone in their new car?

In an ideal world, those who are in the business of selling animals would always care more for the animals' well being than their own profit and always be able to know in advance if the animal were being placed into a proper home or not. But, of course, the world is far from ideal....

[wilomn]

In an ideal world, those who are in the business of selling animals would always care more for the animals' well being than their own profit and always be able to know in advance if the animal were being placed into a proper home or not. But, of course, the world is far from ideal....

An excellent point.

But it sort of begs the question, "why then, do so many place breeders on pedestals and flippers in the dung heap when there is not any evidence to prove that either belongs where placed?"

I'm not really referring to big names with well established well deserved reputations nor the scumbags we all see at most of the shows we go to. I am referring to those like members here, like myself, or maybe not so much like myself but someone less known but doing more business.

Is it just a lot of assumptions or pipedreams or wishful thinkings? Speaking only of honest dealers, be they breeders or flippers, why does it matter what the origin of the snake is?

[rabernet]

Speaking only of honest dealers, be they breeders or flippers, why does it matter what the origin of the snake is?

With honest dealers, I don't think that it does matter.

[JLC]

An excellent point.

But it sort of begs the question, "why then, do so many place breeders on pedestals and flippers in the dung heap when there is not any evidence to prove that either belongs where placed?"
....
Is it just a lot of assumptions or pipedreams or wishful thinkings? Speaking only of honest dealers, be they breeders or flippers, why does it matter what the origin of the snake is?

I ask these questions anytime I see someone start slamming someone else as a "flipper" for no other reason than the mere practice of it. Never get a satisfactory answer, either.

[wolfy-hound]

How about those who slam anyone who resells animals.. yet sells their OWN babies to a wholesaler? If you supply the 'flipper' then aren't you also a flipper by proxy?

I have no issues with any HONEST seller of animals. Whether you bred it, or you bought it. If you tell me the truth about the animal, even if it's "What you see is what you get", then I'm satisfied in your dealings. If I want to know more than you can tell me about an animal, I'll pass and look elsewhere. Breeder or seller.

[tonkatoyman]

I think the answer to Wes' question is not found in the activity but in the person. If the person is a breeder who does not adequately care for the animal. They are wrong. If a flipper propperly qt's the animals for health check and feeding then sellit they are all right. Then so i don't have to type so much use your imagination and reverse the senario.