Could BPs survive in FL?

[nixer]

i think its pretty sad that there is ppl all ages breeding reptiles yet no professionals in the DNR nor on the everglades project seem to have enough cents to buy a hamburger at whitecastle.

[DutchHerp]

Hmm I dont think a paper saying you went to this school and graduated from here and there surpases the knowledge of 2 individuals that have dedicated their lives to the knowledge of these creatures... but thats just my opinion.

Dedicated their lives to breeding these animals in captivity.

You're not actually saying Dave and Tracy Barker know more about the natural history of these Python than a scientist actually studying them in the wild, right?

I wonder why the papers were published through the Chicago Herp Society.

Later, Matt

[rabernet]

Dedicated their lives to breeding these animals in captivity.

You're not actually saying Dave and Tracy Barker know more about the natural history of these Python than a scientist actually studying them in the wild, right?

I wonder why the papers were published through the Chicago Herp Society.

Later, Matt

Wow.......

[mechnut450]

most likey there are some i nthe wild doing just fine. They are just on the news like their bigger family members, since they not eating gaters and such.

[Freakie_frog]

Yes, Dave Barker has a degree in biology, but he is NOT a scientist.

Later, Matt

Just for the uneducated please fill us in on the difference in a a mulit degree biologist, who both worked as zookeepers, field biologists, researchers, and graduate students. During that time they were obsessive collectors and keepers of snakes, as well as of other reptiles and amphibians, and both individuals maintained excessively large private collections of animals. Each of these avid herpetologists has accumulated in excess of 10,000 snake-years of experience. (One “snake-year” of experience equals the full-time maintenance of one snake for a period of one year.) and a scientist.

Not to say much, but the Barkers are herpetoculturists, not herpetologists. Yes, Dave Barker has a degree in biology,
Later, Matt

P.S Just in case you didn't know Herpetologist are Biologist that specialize in the study of reptiles. so unless you've seen Dave or Tracy's "Minor" for all of their many degrees I'd hold off saying what they are and aren't just yet.

[DutchHerp]

Just for the uneducated please fill us in on the difference in a a mulit degree biologist, who both worked as zookeepers, field biologists, researchers, and graduate students. During that time they were obsessive collectors and keepers of snakes, as well as of other reptiles and amphibians, and both individuals maintained excessively large private collections of animals. Each of these avid herpetologists has accumulated in excess of 10,000 snake-years of experience. (One “snake-year” of experience equals the full-time maintenance of one snake for a period of one year.) and a scientist.



P.S Just in case you didn't know Herpetologist are Biologist that specialize in the study of reptiles. so unless you've seen Dave or Tracy's "Minor" for all of their many degrees I'd hold off saying what they are and aren't just yet.

A quote from a herpetologist I somewhat know.

"Dave has an M.S. in Biology, but he is far from the academic that many of you guys are trying to anoint him as being. Dave chose a different path after his M.S.: herpetocultural. Of course he has published a handful of scientific papers since then, but if you knew anything about these papers, they often had many coauthors that did the science portion of the paper. Dave often just provided the field work: tissue samples, specimens, locale records for biogeographic analysis etc. That is not to say that these are not critical aspects of the study, as the study could not have been done without them, but that hardly qualifies Dave as having rigorously applying the scientific method to a problem, cranking out data, analyzing it, and drawing valid conclusions from it...that's where most of those coauthors came in. I was at UTA when much of this was being done.

...

There is a big difference between having lots of experience through gathering a bunch of observations and being able to apply the various techniques of ecology and population biology, through experimentation, to the issue of invasiveness. However, that is precisely what Dave and Tracy have done with their python paper. Have you ever wondered why it was published through the Chicago Herp Bulletin? It would never have been accepted in any of the academic journals...not because it was wrong or because academics have an agenda, but because it had zero science in it! It was a rant based off of their experiences that are almost entirely untested and therefore any potential biases cannot be sorted out of their publication. I'm afraid that many of you that have read their numerous articles on python and other snake husbandry are not being able to separate this kind of work from scientific papers."

Later, Matt

[rabernet]

A quote from a herpetologist I somewhat know.

"Dave has an M.S. in Biology, but he is far from the academic that many of you guys are trying to anoint him as being. Dave chose a different path after his M.S.: herpetocultural. Of course he has published a handful of scientific papers since then, but if you knew anything about these papers, they often had many coauthors that did the science portion of the paper. Dave often just provided the field work: tissue samples, specimens, locale records for biogeographic analysis etc. That is not to say that these are not critical aspects of the study, as the study could not have been done without them, but that hardly qualifies Dave as having rigorously applying the scientific method to a problem, cranking out data, analyzing it, and drawing valid conclusions from it...that's where most of those coauthors came in. I was at UTA when much of this was being done.

...

There is a big difference between having lots of experience through gathering a bunch of observations and being able to apply the various techniques of ecology and population biology, through experimentation, to the issue of invasiveness. However, that is precisely what Dave and Tracy have done with their python paper. Have you ever wondered why it was published through the Chicago Herp Bulletin? It would never have been accepted in any of the academic journals...not because it was wrong or because academics have an agenda, but because it had zero science in it! It was a rant based off of their experiences that are almost entirely untested and therefore any potential biases cannot be sorted out of their publication. I'm afraid that many of you that have read their numerous articles on python and other snake husbandry are not being able to separate this kind of work from scientific papers."

Later, Matt

Please cite your source.

[DutchHerp]

Please cite your source.

Kenny Wray, Florida State University.

Later, Matt

[waltah!]

Now if we can just get the scientific papers that you are using while stating your case. I only say this because you require others to cite their scientific papers that prove their case.
I would like the opportunity to read both (The Barker's and yours) and come to a solid opinion on the subject.

[DutchHerp]

Now if we can just get the scientific papers that you are using while stating your case. I only say this because you require others to cite their scientific papers that prove their case.
I would like the opportunity to read both (The Barker's and yours) and come to a solid opinion on the subject.

*takes deep breath, shakes head, and starts typing*

I don't have any papers... I stated that already - happy?

At least I'm not using biased and unscientific papers, right?!

Later, Matt